I can't believe Spain can be bullied so easy.
It's a terrible tragedy about the train bombing but! letting terroist's dictate what an entire country does is ludicrus at best and dangerous.
It makes me sick to know my oldest son may be in 1raq soon and Spain is turning tail so easy. <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Ron
Way OT Spain
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sc_rebel1957
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I just finished listening to two hours of Spanish language radio. It is important to remember that there was never very much popular support in Spain for the war from the outset, so when the blasts hit, the population felt that it was the result of Spain joining forces with the US in Iraq. Most of Europe does not share the same views on Iraq as does the U.S. That is why Bush refered to the "old Europe", meaning Germany, France, and the others that did not want to participate vs. the new Europe that had a lot to gain in trade and aid from siding with the U.S. It is a complicated issue worldwide, and one that is sure to inflame passionate discussion. Whether we support the Iraq action or oppose it, I think we all must support the troops that were sent there. As with other actions, they just go and do their job in the best manner possible. Let's pray for a safe return for all away from home.
spyderwa
spyderwa
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samosaurus
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ETA as a group has been reduced in number through heavy police enforcement. Those that remain are more radical however. Europe has had to deal with internal and external terrorist threats for a long time. One thing that angered a lot of Spaniards is that the government was quick to blame ETA, and it was felt that they tried to surpress evidence that it was al qaeda. Most of the Spanish ETA attacks have been smaller, often with warnings beforehand. This was very well-coordinated. I think that what this does show is how hard it is to catch terrorists that work in tight cell groupings, speak a foreign language, are financed by oil money, and are wary of strangers. It is tough. I think that the issue that we have ignored for many years is the Saudi involvement in establishing and financing the religious schools that graduated a lot of the 911 and other terrorists. Never a simple issue.
spyderwa
spyderwa
Hi *@*.
It's not much about bullying. It's about legality. The Iraq war is - by all means - an illegal war because the USA didn't act in self-defense (Iraq did not attack the USA) nor did the UN approve the war and thus making it 'legal'.
No WMDs in Iraq, no proven links they founded Al Qaida (even the CIA said this several times). And noone with a sane mind would say that the Iraq is safer now than it was before the war. So in my humble opinion Spain does just the right thing.
No single country, however powerful it is, should be allowed to ignore all the other countries and start a war without UN approval.
-Connor
'I ought never to act except in such a way that I can also will that my maxim should become a universal law.'
It's not much about bullying. It's about legality. The Iraq war is - by all means - an illegal war because the USA didn't act in self-defense (Iraq did not attack the USA) nor did the UN approve the war and thus making it 'legal'.
No WMDs in Iraq, no proven links they founded Al Qaida (even the CIA said this several times). And noone with a sane mind would say that the Iraq is safer now than it was before the war. So in my humble opinion Spain does just the right thing.
No single country, however powerful it is, should be allowed to ignore all the other countries and start a war without UN approval.
-Connor
'I ought never to act except in such a way that I can also will that my maxim should become a universal law.'
The UN is a joke and should be done away with.What war is legal.If there is a threat of attack comeing from one country to another it is that countries right to try to stop the attack before it happens.
I have no dought that if the US had not gone into Iraq there would have been a nuke set off somewhere in the US within the next 10 yrs.Libia had the means to build one and even IF Iraq did not it would not have been hard to buy one from someone else.
<img src=http://techhelpers.net/e4u/drink/trink36.gif
I have no dought that if the US had not gone into Iraq there would have been a nuke set off somewhere in the US within the next 10 yrs.Libia had the means to build one and even IF Iraq did not it would not have been hard to buy one from someone else.
<img src=http://techhelpers.net/e4u/drink/trink36.gif
it´s a great tragedy for all the spanish people...
but mr.Aznar, our president,confused us all the time saying that Eta was the main resposable just to win the elections while all the secret agencies were knower about the Alqaeda´s authorship.
I don´t know if it´s a legal war or not.. but here in Spain people disagree with it and we don´t understand why Aznar keep on with the war...
but mr.Aznar, our president,confused us all the time saying that Eta was the main resposable just to win the elections while all the secret agencies were knower about the Alqaeda´s authorship.
I don´t know if it´s a legal war or not.. but here in Spain people disagree with it and we don´t understand why Aznar keep on with the war...
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Concord_Bob
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voxnaes,
I think President Bush's "Old Europe" statement referred to the two faced Countries that claim to be the United States allies, but in fact only want to be allies to get the money this Country squanders on foreign aid.
I don't believe it was meant to be an insult to true allies and friends like Denmark.
I think President Bush's "Old Europe" statement referred to the two faced Countries that claim to be the United States allies, but in fact only want to be allies to get the money this Country squanders on foreign aid.
I don't believe it was meant to be an insult to true allies and friends like Denmark.
Whilst I don't want to get into whether or not the war was legal or whatever and I can fully understand Spain's reaction in voting out the govt in the wake of this terrible tragedy - I have to agree with Ron that Spain deciding so quick to pull it's troops is a victory for the terrorists.
I wish your son a safe return Ron.
Edited by - The Cool on 3/16/2004 12:16:45 PM
I wish your son a safe return Ron.
Edited by - The Cool on 3/16/2004 12:16:45 PM
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Concord_Bob
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Nemo,
Any explaining on the tragedy in your Country should come from the animals that did it. I hate to see any Country fold to terrorism. Sitting back and trying to apease them doesn't work. A perfect example of that is Nevil Chamberlin and his stance on Germany at the beginning of world war II.
Edited by - concord_bob on 3/16/2004 2:16:36 PM
Any explaining on the tragedy in your Country should come from the animals that did it. I hate to see any Country fold to terrorism. Sitting back and trying to apease them doesn't work. A perfect example of that is Nevil Chamberlin and his stance on Germany at the beginning of world war II.
Edited by - concord_bob on 3/16/2004 2:16:36 PM
First off the bombings were a great tragedy and I pray for those lost, and thier families.
and also: Hey Spain, you better get used to the terrorism cause it's really coming now! You gave in so fast the terrorists are licking thier lips now. Just don't come to the US to bail you out this time! I wonder when Spain becomes a terrorist state will we go to war with them?
and also: Hey Spain, you better get used to the terrorism cause it's really coming now! You gave in so fast the terrorists are licking thier lips now. Just don't come to the US to bail you out this time! I wonder when Spain becomes a terrorist state will we go to war with them?
'Spain turning its tail': this simply does NOT apply, since the opposition had been shouting for a year that if they won the election, they'd get the troops out. They won. Bombing did not initiate this recall; it was already in motion.
Now what one might think of Spain's withdrawl is another matter, but is was politics in the pipeline, not bombs, that brought it about, and as such 'turning its tail after some bombs' does not apply.
Chris
Now what one might think of Spain's withdrawl is another matter, but is was politics in the pipeline, not bombs, that brought it about, and as such 'turning its tail after some bombs' does not apply.
Chris
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sc_rebel1957
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Thanks guys for the well wishes on my son, maybe god willing we will be done with this and all our troops be home soon.
As for the war being legal, Iraq was in violation if the U.N. mandate to begin with.
I just see it as now every nut case with a bomb or the threat of having 1 can now hold Spain hostage.
I mean what does he have to lose? we now all know Spain will cowtow to any demand made.
And I'm not saying this to bad mouth Spain, I feel true sadness for the families who lost members, remember we lost over 6000 on 9/11.
The U.N. should have kept the arms inspectors in Iraq to begin with instead of being throw out after the 1st Gulf war.
And as far as WMD we still don't know for sure, Iraq is a big country and it don't take much room to hide a tactical nuke.
I agree with Jeff, that's our next worry to come.
On this forum we cover alot of countries and this post wasn't meant to offend any of our frineds.
I hope for a day when war is just a memory. Ron
As for the war being legal, Iraq was in violation if the U.N. mandate to begin with.
I just see it as now every nut case with a bomb or the threat of having 1 can now hold Spain hostage.
I mean what does he have to lose? we now all know Spain will cowtow to any demand made.
And I'm not saying this to bad mouth Spain, I feel true sadness for the families who lost members, remember we lost over 6000 on 9/11.
The U.N. should have kept the arms inspectors in Iraq to begin with instead of being throw out after the 1st Gulf war.
And as far as WMD we still don't know for sure, Iraq is a big country and it don't take much room to hide a tactical nuke.
I agree with Jeff, that's our next worry to come.
On this forum we cover alot of countries and this post wasn't meant to offend any of our frineds.
I hope for a day when war is just a memory. Ron
So in the paper today-
"Six Moroccans are suspected in attack!
Some suprise huh!
The main suspect is in custody "Jamal Zougam" identified as a follower of "Imad Yarkas " the alleged leader of Spain's al-Qaida cell!
So I guess if you ignore a problem than there isn't one...or...It's always someone else's problem. Heck man their living in your back yard!
Your country and your people need to make decesions with your "minds" not just your "hearts". This just isn't going to just go away. Will there never be any wars? Not in our lifetime because there too many "little tin gods" out there.
ken.
"Six Moroccans are suspected in attack!
Some suprise huh!
The main suspect is in custody "Jamal Zougam" identified as a follower of "Imad Yarkas " the alleged leader of Spain's al-Qaida cell!
So I guess if you ignore a problem than there isn't one...or...It's always someone else's problem. Heck man their living in your back yard!
Your country and your people need to make decesions with your "minds" not just your "hearts". This just isn't going to just go away. Will there never be any wars? Not in our lifetime because there too many "little tin gods" out there.
ken.
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peacenik hippy so 'n' so
"Terrorism" is the murder or maiming of innocent people, no matter what country it happens in.
Is this kid now "free"?
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_828377.html
Is this kid now "free"?
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_828377.html
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sc_rebel1957
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Glad you replied Peace nic, we have a rare chance to hear from someone actually living in Iraq.
Are you better off now w/o Saddam?
How's the real day to day living there now
We here only see the ocasional tib bit of news on how schools are open now, how the women in your country don't have to worry about being beaten in public now.
The U.S. and the few allies we have left have commited billions of dollars, which in the end we the tax payers will almost surely foot the bill for.
Were you beter off living under a tyrant or do you feel any better about actually choosing a leader?
The whole process would go so much faster if our guys didn't have to worry about homemade bombs in the road every 100 yards.
I as an American am growing tired of hearing about our sons and daughters getting killed for a country that don't appreciate what were trying to do.
IMO the Iraqi citizens should do more to help themselves which would speed things up about our troops getting home because I promise you we SURE don't want to be there.
Ron
Are you better off now w/o Saddam?
How's the real day to day living there now
We here only see the ocasional tib bit of news on how schools are open now, how the women in your country don't have to worry about being beaten in public now.
The U.S. and the few allies we have left have commited billions of dollars, which in the end we the tax payers will almost surely foot the bill for.
Were you beter off living under a tyrant or do you feel any better about actually choosing a leader?
The whole process would go so much faster if our guys didn't have to worry about homemade bombs in the road every 100 yards.
I as an American am growing tired of hearing about our sons and daughters getting killed for a country that don't appreciate what were trying to do.
IMO the Iraqi citizens should do more to help themselves which would speed things up about our troops getting home because I promise you we SURE don't want to be there.
Ron