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Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 3:05 pm
by Liquid Cobra
TimButterfield wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 2:39 pm
The Millie 2 S90V/Carbon Fiber is described on the site as having a "subtle peel-ply texture for a secure grip". I'm not sure how much 'subtle' is.
The Caly 3.5 CF is very smooth, no texture. The Chaparral CF/G10 has a nice texture, but the description text doesn't describe that. The security there seems to come, not from the CF texture, but from the choil and liner shape. Given the Millie 2 has "liners nested within the scales" and not full like the Chaparral, I'm trying to guess what 'subtle' means in this context. The Native 5 Fluted CF is described as having a "subtle non-slip texture". The Bradley Folder 2 CF/G10 is described as "subtle texture" and has laminated scales similar to the Chaparral. Maybe it is like one of those. But, I haven't held the Fluted CF to know if that 'subtle' is the same as the Bradley (Chaparral?) 'subtle' or if they are different. I would guess fluted CF to have 'more' texture than the Chaparral, but it's still described as subtle. lol
Any guesses?
It looks and feels just like any peel ply g10 Spyderco you’ve ever handled.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:19 pm
by Wartstein
Mushroom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:37 am
Wartstein wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:47 pm
Totally NOT a world shattering difference
, but still something I noticed and prefer on the Millie 2:
The combo edge version appearantly leans more towards SE (has a higher percentage of SE (vs PE)) on the "2".
And of course offers the more "modern", mellower serration pattern which I personally prefer (see pics below).
.....
The depth of the serration pattern should not be judged based on catalog pictures. Those are often photoshopped renderings and do not accurately represent the real world differences between actual serration patterns on the knife. As you probably know, serrations are ground into the blade with a shaped wheel that wears down overtime. This means that the first knives ground on that wheel will have a deeper serration grind than the last knives ground on that wheel.
Thanks for reminding me, I did not think of that. Very true that the first pics of a new model often show not the "real" but just photoshopped serrations.
I still assume that they got the length / percentage of the SE part (longer than on the Millie 1) right, but one can´t be sure of course.
On the "wheel thing": True of course too that the depth of the serrations alter with the "aging" of the wheel.
But still there are general "base patterns", right? For example each Endela SE or each Caribbean SE I saw real pictures of had shallower serrations than each Stretch 1 SE I ever saw (on real pics).
Does again not mean though that the serrations in that first catalogue pics show the actual "base" pattern, as you pointed out!
If I personally would be in the market for a Millie 2 though, I´d probably go full SE anyway - though I have to say: Since I got my comboedge ffg Endura (thin red line) I really appreciate that edge type a lot too! And if I got a comboedge Millie 2 I´d love it to have a pattern right like in the pics: A comparably long section of shallow serrations.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:24 am
by cabfrank
It does seem like there are general "base patterns". I hope sal, or someone, lets us know for sure, but it does appear that way.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:51 am
by TimButterfield
Liquid Cobra wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 3:05 pm
It looks and feels just like any peel ply g10 Spyderco you’ve ever handled.
Thanks. Even though it is solid CF, I was hoping it would feel like the Chaparral CF/G10. I like that texture, but the Caly CF texture (or lack), not so much.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:50 am
by Mushroom
Wartstein wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:19 pm
Mushroom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:37 am
Wartstein wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:47 pm
Totally NOT a world shattering difference
, but still something I noticed and prefer on the Millie 2:
The combo edge version appearantly leans more towards SE (has a higher percentage of SE (vs PE)) on the "2".
And of course offers the more "modern", mellower serration pattern which I personally prefer (see pics below).
.....
The depth of the serration pattern should not be judged based on catalog pictures. Those are often photoshopped renderings and do not accurately represent the real world differences between actual serration patterns on the knife. As you probably know, serrations are ground into the blade with a shaped wheel that wears down overtime. This means that the first knives ground on that wheel will have a deeper serration grind than the last knives ground on that wheel.
Thanks for reminding me, I did not think of that. Very true that the first pics of a new model often show not the "real" but just photoshopped serrations.
I still assume that they got the length / percentage of the SE part (longer than on the Millie 1) right, but one can´t be sure of course.
On the "wheel thing": True of course too that the depth of the serrations alter with the "aging" of the wheel.
But still there are general "base patterns", right? For example each Endela SE or each Caribbean SE I saw real pictures of had shallower serrations than each Stretch 1 SE I ever saw (on real pics).
Does again not mean though that the serrations in that first catalogue pics show the actual "base" pattern, as you pointed out!
If I personally would be in the market for a Millie 2 though, I´d probably go full SE anyway - though I have to say: Since I got my comboedge ffg Endura (thin red line) I really appreciate that edge type a lot too! And if I got a comboedge Millie 2 I´d love it to have a pattern right like in the pics: A comparably long section of shallow serrations.
The only pattern of their serrations, is the tooth pattern. (
SpyderEdge) One large scallop followed by two small scallops. Any discrepancies aside from that are most likely from the grinding wheel itself changing overtime due to natural wear and tear. There are other factors that could affect the appearance of the serrations, such a blade thickness and grind angle but they’re still the same “SpyderEdge” pattern.
The serration pattern on their kitchen knives is different from their typical “SpyderEdge” used on folders though.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:00 pm
by Wartstein
Mushroom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:50 am
Wartstein wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:19 pm
Thanks for reminding me, I did not think of that. Very true that the first pics of a new model often show not the "real" but just photoshopped serrations.
I still assume that they got the length / percentage of the SE part (longer than on the Millie 1) right, but one can´t be sure of course.
The only pattern of their serrations, is the tooth pattern. (
SpyderEdge) One large scallop followed by two small scallops. Any discrepancies aside from that are most likely from the grinding wheel itself changing overtime due to natural wear and tear. There are other factors that could affect the appearance of the serrations, such a blade thickness and grind angle but they’re still the same “SpyderEdge” pattern.
The serration pattern on their kitchen knives is different from their typical “SpyderEdge” used on folders though.
Ok, then "pattern" is technically not the correct term if it means "large scallop - two small sallops"
What's definitely the case :
There are SE Spydies that always come from the factory with "deeper", "less wide in relation to their height" "more pointy" and so on serrations compared to other SE models that always come with "smaller", "shallower" , ...serrations.
So there ARE distinct differences in the kind of serrations different models get right from the factory.
Of course those serrations themselves then vary within the same model depending on the "aging" of the wheel...
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:32 pm
by Mushroom
Wartstein wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:00 pm
Mushroom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:50 am
The only pattern of their serrations, is the tooth pattern. (
SpyderEdge) One large scallop followed by two small scallops. Any discrepancies aside from that are most likely from the grinding wheel itself changing overtime due to natural wear and tear. There are other factors that could affect the appearance of the serrations, such a blade thickness and grind angle but they’re still the same “SpyderEdge” pattern.
The serration pattern on their kitchen knives is different from their typical “SpyderEdge” used on folders though.
Ok, then "pattern" is technically not the correct term if it means "large scallop - two small sallops"
What's definitely the case :
There are SE Spydies that always come from the factory with "deeper", "less wide in relation to their height" "more pointy" and so on serrations compared to other SE models that always come with "smaller", "shallower" , ...serrations.
So there ARE distinct differences in the kind of serrations different models get right from the factory.
Of course those serrations themselves then vary within the same model depending on the "aging" of the wheel...
My apologies but I think I’m having trouble fully understanding what you mean. There are a number of factors that could lead to the differences you’re noticing. Such as design differences between models, country of origin, or even the grinding wheels themselves could present some level of variability. (Size, diameter, material, etc.) The grinding wheels used in Seki are likely from a different manufacturer than the grinding wheels used in Golden.
It could even be CQI that you’re noticing. It’s possible that Spyderco may have adjusted the specs of their “SpyderEdge” in general. As a result, we’re seeing more SpyderEdges resembling what you’re seeing on the Military 2.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:19 pm
by James Y
If the combo-edge Military 2 is really going to be the same as it looks in the sample photo, that would immediately go on my "someday in the future purchases" list. I prefer less-aggressive serrations.
Of course, that's only a reveal pic. The serrations on the actual knives will probably be different from that pic. All will be clarified once purchasers have actual examples of that version in hand.
Jim
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:35 pm
by Wartstein
Mushroom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:32 pm
My apologies but I think I’m having trouble fully understanding what you mean. There are a number of factors that could lead to the differences you’re noticing. Such as design differences between models, country of origin, or even the grinding wheels themselves could present some level of variability. (Size, diameter, material, etc.) The grinding wheels used in Seki are likely from a different manufacturer than the grinding wheels used in Golden.
It could even be CQI that you’re noticing. It’s possible that Spyderco may have adjusted the specs of their “SpyderEdge” in general. As a result, we’re seeing more SpyderEdges resembling what you’re seeing on the Military 2.
MY apologies, Nick, I know I am most often long winded and in complex matters can fail to make my point in English.
- I understood (probably wrongly) your post as if you were saying that
ALL Spydie models (at least all from a certain factory)
would get the exact same serrations from the exact same wheel concerning depth, pointiness, width...
.. and as if you were saying that differences between serrations across ALL models (at least from a certain factory) would be due
only to the wear of the wheel (and, yes, naturally of course by primary and secondary angle)
- To me it is clear though that Spyderco chooses to give different models different kinds of serrations right from the get go.
So an Endela SE will always have "shallower" serrations than a ffg Pac Salt 2 SE but WITHIN models the exact form of the serrations will differ depending of the "aging" of the wheel.
Hope I made my point a bit clearer now
and I figure I misunderstood what you were saying anyway...
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:55 pm
by JSumm
Wartstein wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:35 pm
So an Endela SE will always have "shallower" serrations than a ffg Pac Salt 2 SE but WITHIN models the exact form of the serrations will differ depending of the "aging" of the wheel. saying anyway...
I know we are way off topic, but at a show a good friend and fellow forumite showed me the Endela next to the other serrated Sekis and yep, it has taller/shallower serrations then the rest
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:07 pm
by Mushroom
Wartstein wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:35 pm
Mushroom wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:32 pm
My apologies but I think I’m having trouble fully understanding what you mean. There are a number of factors that could lead to the differences you’re noticing. Such as design differences between models, country of origin, or even the grinding wheels themselves could present some level of variability. (Size, diameter, material, etc.) The grinding wheels used in Seki are likely from a different manufacturer than the grinding wheels used in Golden.
It could even be CQI that you’re noticing. It’s possible that Spyderco may have adjusted the specs of their “SpyderEdge” in general. As a result, we’re seeing more SpyderEdges resembling what you’re seeing on the Military 2.
MY apologies, Nick, I know I am most often long winded and in complex matters can fail to make my point in English.
- I understood (probably wrongly) your post as if you were saying that
ALL Spydie models (at least all from a certain factory)
would get the exact same serrations from the exact same wheel concerning depth, pointiness, width...
.. and as if you were saying that differences between serrations across ALL models (at least from a certain factory) would be due
only to the wear of the wheel (and, yes, naturally of course by primary and secondary angle)
- To me it is clear though that Spyderco chooses to give different models different kinds of serrations right from the get go.
So an Endela SE will always have "shallower" serrations than a ffg Pac Salt 2 SE but WITHIN models the exact form of the serrations will differ depending of the "aging" of the wheel.
Hope I made my point a bit clearer now
and I figure I misunderstood what you were saying anyway...
That does make it more clear. I agree that there are definitely some consistent differences in the serrations between certain models straight from the factory but I still believe these differences are more of a result from manufacturing tendencies than they are an intentional design related choice.
I don’t want to stray too far off topic so to your original point, it’s probably safe to say your observations are correct. The Serrated Edge and Combo Edge Military 2 will probably have serrations that are less steep/tall than the example of Military Model you shared.
I’ll post photos tomorrow but I have an old serrated edge Military Model and the serrations are similar to what you’re looking for in the Military 2.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:21 am
by cabfrank
I'm of the belief that the differences between models are an intentional design related choice. I know here are variances within each model run, but it surely seems that way to me. I hope we get some clarification.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:20 am
by Mushroom
cabfrank wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:21 am
I'm of the belief that the differences between models are an intentional design related choice. I know here are variances within each model run, but it surely seems that way to me. I hope we get some clarification.
Can you expand on what you mean by this?
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:09 am
by cabfrank
Just that some models have intentionally shallower serrations, without regard to the wearing of the sharpening wheel.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 5:08 pm
by Buddafucco
Black DLC Blade Black G-10
Red Hill Cutlery... Priced Higher...
https://redhillcutlery.com/product/spyd ... on-lock-2/
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:21 pm
by vivi
geeze, I know it's only $30 but I'll hold out for $220.
not looking forward to when $250 is the standard price for 4" g10 spydies
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:34 pm
by Buddafucco
vivi wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:21 pm
geeze, I know it's only $30 but I'll hold out for $220.
not looking forward to when $250 is the standard price for 4" g10 spydies
I would. I've ordered from them once. They were slow compared to dealers that I would consider "normal" shippers.
The holiday and Black Friday might delay the process a little, but they should be popping up at other dealers soon.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:59 pm
by u.w.
Good to see them showing up! Here (RedHill) now, others soon hopefully, and for a few samolies less perhaps (hopefully)..
u.w.
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:40 pm
by Buddafucco
Black DLC PlainEdge Blade Black G-10
Northwest Knives...
https://northwestknives.com/products/sp ... e-c36gpbk2
Re: Military 2 Discussion (Merged)
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:27 pm
by Buddafucco