I have a small custom slip joint in AEB-L at about 63 RC. It is very thin stock, like .06” range, and was a near zero grind when I got it. I run angles well under 10 degrees with it and it is a tremendous slicer. It is so thin that when dull it still out slices most sharp pocket knives. It resharpens extremely quickly and takes very crisp and clean edges with ease. With a good heat treat AEB-L is a great steel if you are willing to go very thin with the blade and edge to take advantage of its properties. Having an AEB-L blade with a .025” edge at 17 degrees per side will underwhelm you with the performance compared to a mega carbide steel. If I tried to run most mega carbide steels as thin and acute as my AEB-L slip joint though it would end up causing a lot of damage to the edge that would take a long time to fix.
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AEB-L is used as a razor blade steel, and it was designed to have very high edge stability. It has a small number of very fine carbides, and when ran at high hardness with a proper heat treat it has extremely high edge stability.
Excellent info, gunmike, thanks for this. What I hear you saying is that it's a razor blade steel so we should use it in razor-blade-like configurations and edges. You just sold me on the idea of the AEB-L mule, and I'll put as acute an edge on it as my Hapstone will allow (which I think is somewhere around 12?).
Not just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.
I have a small custom slip joint in AEB-L at about 63 RC. It is very thin stock, like .06” range, and was a near zero grind when I got it. I run angles well under 10 degrees with it and it is a tremendous slicer. It is so thin that when dull it still out slices most sharp pocket knives. It resharpens extremely quickly and takes very crisp and clean edges with ease. With a good heat treat AEB-L is a great steel if you are willing to go very thin with the blade and edge to take advantage of its properties. Having an AEB-L blade with a .025” edge at 17 degrees per side will underwhelm you with the performance compared to a mega carbide steel. If I tried to run most mega carbide steels as thin and acute as my AEB-L slip joint though it would end up causing a lot of damage to the edge that would take a long time to fix.
…
AEB-L is used as a razor blade steel, and it was designed to have very high edge stability. It has a small number of very fine carbides, and when ran at high hardness with a proper heat treat it has extremely high edge stability.
Excellent info, gunmike, thanks for this. What I hear you saying is that it's a razor blade steel so we should use it in razor-blade-like configurations and edges. You just sold me on the idea of the AEB-L mule, and I'll put as acute an edge on it as my Hapstone will allow (which I think is somewhere around 12?).
Not just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.
Exactly, thin behind the edge. I run almost all pocket knives at 8-10 degrees per side with a 15 per side microbevel. That helps them cut, but getting the knife reground to be very thin behind the edge is where you see the huge increase in slicing performance. Like I said though, ultra thin can cause you problems if you twist out of heavy cuts or smack the edge into a big staple.
I have a small custom slip joint in AEB-L at about 63 RC. It is very thin stock, like .06” range, and was a near zero grind when I got it. I run angles well under 10 degrees with it and it is a tremendous slicer. It is so thin that when dull it still out slices most sharp pocket knives. It resharpens extremely quickly and takes very crisp and clean edges with ease. With a good heat treat AEB-L is a great steel if you are willing to go very thin with the blade and edge to take advantage of its properties. Having an AEB-L blade with a .025” edge at 17 degrees per side will underwhelm you with the performance compared to a mega carbide steel. If I tried to run most mega carbide steels as thin and acute as my AEB-L slip joint though it would end up causing a lot of damage to the edge that would take a long time to fix.
…
AEB-L is used as a razor blade steel, and it was designed to have very high edge stability. It has a small number of very fine carbides, and when ran at high hardness with a proper heat treat it has extremely high edge stability.
Excellent info, gunmike, thanks for this. What I hear you saying is that it's a razor blade steel so we should use it in razor-blade-like configurations and edges. You just sold me on the idea of the AEB-L mule, and I'll put as acute an edge on it as my Hapstone will allow (which I think is somewhere around 12?).
Not just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.
Exactly, thin behind the edge. I run almost all pocket knives at 8-10 degrees per side with a 15 per side microbevel. That helps them cut, but getting the knife reground to be very thin behind the edge is where you see the huge increase in slicing performance. Like I said though, ultra thin can cause you problems if you twist out of heavy cuts or smack the edge into a big staple.
Yes, there is a learning curve to see what the material will support but you must actually take the knife to it's failure point in that way to know where the ideal blend of durability and cutting ability ends up. When you begin taking damage then you know you just need to go slightly more obtuse only up to about half the depth of the damage you see.
Excellent info, gunmike, thanks for this. What I hear you saying is that it's a razor blade steel so we should use it in razor-blade-like configurations and edges. You just sold me on the idea of the AEB-L mule, and I'll put as acute an edge on it as my Hapstone will allow (which I think is somewhere around 12?).
Not just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.
Exactly, thin behind the edge. I run almost all pocket knives at 8-10 degrees per side with a 15 per side microbevel. That helps them cut, but getting the knife reground to be very thin behind the edge is where you see the huge increase in slicing performance. Like I said though, ultra thin can cause you problems if you twist out of heavy cuts or smack the edge into a big staple.
Yes, there is a learning curve to see what the material will support but you must actually take the knife to it's failure point in that way to know where the ideal blend of durability and cutting ability ends up. When you begin taking damage then you know you just need to go slightly more obtuse only up to about half the depth of the damage you see.
A lot of the new guys need to read this three times.
Nice video. At 62-63 RC for the AEB-L mule we should see some excellent performance. Far, far better than some of the 13C26 knives (same composition as AEB-L) that were at 57-59 RC I used in the past.
Nice video. At 62-63 RC for the AEB-L mule we should see some excellent performance. Far, far better than some of the 13C26 knives (same composition as AEB-L) that were at 57-59 RC I used in the past.
I don't think you'll find many production AEB-L knives at 62-63rc so I'm excited for people to get their hands on it and try something they perhaps haven't experienced in a production format.
Nice video. At 62-63 RC for the AEB-L mule we should see some excellent performance. Far, far better than some of the 13C26 knives (same composition as AEB-L) that were at 57-59 RC I used in the past.
I don't think you'll find many production AEB-L knives at 62-63rc so I'm excited for people to get their hands on it and try something they perhaps haven't experienced in a production format.
Exactly, my only experience with AEB-L at 62-63 RC is with custom knives. Getting that in a production knife is great.
Nice video. At 62-63 RC for the AEB-L mule we should see some excellent performance. Far, far better than some of the 13C26 knives (same composition as AEB-L) that were at 57-59 RC I used in the past.
I don't think you'll find many production AEB-L knives at 62-63rc so I'm excited for people to get their hands on it and try something they perhaps haven't experienced in a production format.
Exactly, my only experience with AEB-L at 62-63 RC is with custom knives. Getting that in a production knife is great.
Definitely, I know someone will probably point out AEB-L has been able to achieve 64-65rc in some custom knives but I don't think that hardness is something that can be currently seen in a production setting at production volumes at this time.
As seen in the video we can push a flat 12.5 dps edge and carve wood and still shave hair so we have plenty of capability for you edge freaks out there to play with.
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:27 pm
by JoviAl
Ooooh! After watching that video I’m really looking forward to this!
Not just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.
Exactly, thin behind the edge. I run almost all pocket knives at 8-10 degrees per side with a 15 per side microbevel. That helps them cut, but getting the knife reground to be very thin behind the edge is where you see the huge increase in slicing performance. Like I said though, ultra thin can cause you problems if you twist out of heavy cuts or smack the edge into a big staple.
Yes, there is a learning curve to see what the material will support but you must actually take the knife to it's failure point in that way to know where the ideal blend of durability and cutting ability ends up. When you begin taking damage then you know you just need to go slightly more obtuse only up to about half the depth of the damage you see.
A lot of the new guys need to read this three times.
That's a good start. Understanding it will allow them to see that there is going to be some work required of them to make almost any knife they buy the best and MOST EFFICIENT TOOL for their specifc use case. Additionally, it will also be required of them that they are willing to 'mess up' a perfectly nice looking knife by 'changing it' in a fundamental way with the expectation that it will actually take damage at a certain point.
This is a huge hurdle for many to overcome, it's like 'what if I 'ruin' my knife taking it too far? In truth, it's unlikely that you'll ruin it that way as you'd have to be running some seriously acute angles or just simply using it in an extreme way relative to the geometry you've applied. As a general rule, I would suggest you can virtually almost cut the existing 'factory' edge angle in half as a starting point. That will get you in a ballpark anyways for MOST production fare.
For Spyderco I'd say somewhere in the ballpark of 8-13 DPS is a good target to shoot for depending on the steel and carbide volume/type/ratios & heat treat, etc. for your specific knife. The X-factor is ultimately your skill in using an efficient cutting tool in a way that minimizes or eliminates damage where it would be easy for a careless user to inflict gross damage that would be very disheartening to see. This is where you sort of 'own your own warranty' by not being an idjit.
What I find helpful to consider here is the fact that in general, superior cutting geometry equals much less force being applied to the knife to cut most materials. Once you start getting around 12 DPS and above the force to cut can often be well past the point of what I'd consider 'safe' to be cutting certain materials. Slipping off a cut and/or poor cutting technique can easily land one in the hospital for a repair surgery. Remember they use a very similar tool to do surgery!
That said, think of it like this guys... durability in a knife is a nice luxury to have. It really sucks having to remove gross damage without power tools. Safety in your body and health is priceless and if it's me or the knife that is a very easy choice. I'll blow out 50 knives and still feel like I'm getting out ahead if I am unscathed. There's a video which I believe illustrates this point well, by Kyley Harris (former maker of CKC Knives). Shout out to BBB near the middle of video.
Sal, Larrin & BBB? Which one is Billy Murray's character?
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:26 am
by Bemo
Well Larrin has to be Harold Rambis right?
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:41 am
by VandymanG
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Been looking forward to this one. I’m planning to make my first set of scales for this mule. Already have the piece of iron wood burl that I’m going to use. Super excited and hoping I am able to get one.
