Sal, what are the chances for a AEB-L spydie ?

[Ankerson]

No, it doesn't have enough carbon to draw in the Chromium to make carbides, I got that directly from the people who make the steel, it was developed that way on purpose.

Anyhow I am done with this thread, not worth the effort.

You may have misunderstood what the Uddeholm representative said, or perhaps you were given bad information. AEB-L and 13C26 were designed to have a small volume of chromium carbides in the heat treated condition. I am not speculating, the micrographs are available to see here: http://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/03/16/m ... and-aeb-l/

I don’t believe I have been unkind in expressing my disagreement. I firmly believe that there are very few “horrendous” steels, only steels with different sets of properties and price points. I hope you reconsider your decision to disengage.

Not worth the effort because the properties and development of AEB-L are too well known and have been for a very long time.

So it's not worth the effort going back over the same points over and over.

As far as I know no production maker is using 13C26 or AEB-L anymore, Kershaw used it for awhile however.

Sandvik developed 14C28N for Kershaw because they wanted better corrosion resistance.

Yeah, I know that, remember when it happened.

AEB-L isn't a bad steel for what it was developed for, production mass produced razor blades.

But for knives, there are just too many other options steel wise to bother with it.

[Larrin]

But for knives, there are just too many other options steel wise to bother with it.

On that point we disagree.

[Ankerson]

But for knives, there are just too many other options steel wise to bother with it.

On that point we disagree.

Never saw the point of it for knives, however it is cheap so it can be used in very low cost budget knives.

For folders there are more than a few stainless steels that perform better, some all around better.

For fixed blades, the same, both stainless and non stainless (More non stainless however) that are better suited for the purpose, more balanced performance wise.

For swords, well steels like 1080 and L6 are legendary for those top sword smiths who use them.

[Larrin]

Never saw the point of it for knives, however it is cheap so it can be used in very low cost budget knives.

For folders there are more than a few stainless steels that perform better, some all around better.

For fixed blades, the same, both stainless and non stainless (More non stainless however) that are better suited for the purpose, more balanced performance wise.

That depends on your definition of “all around better.” AEB-L is tougher than virtually any other stainless capable of 62Rc. If you simply mean that for you you prefer higher wear resistance steels at the cost of some toughness and ease in sharpening that is a personal choice.

[Ankerson]

Never saw the point of it for knives, however it is cheap so it can be used in very low cost budget knives.

For folders there are more than a few stainless steels that perform better, some all around better.

For fixed blades, the same, both stainless and non stainless (More non stainless however) that are better suited for the purpose, more balanced performance wise.

That depends on your definition of “all around better.” AEB-L is tougher than virtually any other stainless capable of 62Rc. If you simply mean that for you you prefer higher wear resistance steels at the cost of some toughness and ease in sharpening that is a personal choice.

AEB-L doesn't do anything well, not really as far as knife blades go, it's really not very well balanced performance wise.

Just too many other options out there to choose from that are better balanced steels.

I still remember the 1st time I tested it, all I could think was why is this steel even used?

What I miss is Cold Steels AUS-8, the way the Japanese HTed it for their knives years ago (When they still made them in Japan).

[Larrin]

As I said AEB-L has very high toughness:
http://knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/u ... ummary.jpg

[Ankerson]

As I said AEB-L has very high toughness:
http://knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/u ... ummary.jpg

So does S7, but I wouldn't want a folder in it.

Toughness isn't everything.

Performance is a balance of properties combined.

That and add HT and geometry to get a well balanced blade.

Personally I think steels like S35VN, S30V, ELMAX and CPM 154 provide an excellent balance in properties for folders.

[vivi]

AEB-L FRN Police 4, who's in?

[Ankerson]

I could see a Mule Team in AEB-L to see how people react to it and see what happens.

Could be a good idea.

[vivi]

I could see a Mule Team in AEB-L to see how people react to it and see what happens.

Could be a good idea.

I wonder if it would cost more or less than the BD1?

[Ankerson]

I could see a Mule Team in AEB-L to see how people react to it and see what happens.

Could be a good idea.

I wonder if it would cost more or less than the BD1?

I dunno, I would say about the same, just guessing.

The logic is put a Mule Team out there so people can see what AEB-L really is in a production blade, some of us already know.

Hopefully Spyderco can do better.

That is what the Mule Team project is for.

[tvenuto]

Jim you've made your opinion on the steel clear. The vast majority of your statements are not precise enough to confirm or refute, Larrin has addressed the ones that are. If you have data or more precise statements then I'm all ears (but we've done this before).

Additionally, dismissively calling any steel "just a [blank] steel," referring to its origins when discussing knives is patently ludicrous. Almost every single requested steel was originally developed or used for something other than handheld knife blades. The grand irony here is that the one we're discussing was developed or used for an application that's far closer to a handheld knife blade than any of the others.

[TomAiello]

I think I'd rather see Nitro-V than AEB-L in a Mule. But I'll buy whatever Mules are rolled out, regardless.

[Some1]

I’m not trying to put anyone in their place. I’m just discussing steel.

Fair enough. But you did state what needed to be stated and it does directly conflict with a belief that's been pushed for years that is not as universal as a lot of people think. So i thank you. It was a breath of fresh air. I'd like to see some very thin, very hard, very tough knives. Maybe even something that's zero ground like the nilakka. I think a steel like AEBL would be nice to try, considering a lot of steel needs to be removed to sharpen it and retain the zero grind.

And sorry, i shouldn't have reacted the way i did earlier but that guy has been calling people, even really smart, really educated people, stupid for a long time even when they know more about the actual science of this stuff more than he does. It was nice for someone irrefutably knowledgeable about this stuff to say, "no, it doesn't work that way, buddy. Please stop your nonsense." I overreacted, but it still was nice to see.

[Evil D]

I'd like to try it in full SE :)

[dj moonbat]

I can safely say I've never seen a PhD handle with such kindness a layperson dismissing his views without any citations.

[Some1]

I can safely say I've never seen a PhD handle with such kindness a layperson dismissing his views without any citations.

Seriously. Not that i can say i rub elbows with doctors very often. But i think I'd be firmly out of bounds if i told albert einstein i knew more than he about general relativity, same with ankerson and larrin and steel properties. Maybe Cliff Stamp was right being so dismissive, and even impatient, with guys like Ankerson. The same thing applied there.

I wonder how long Larrin has until he is banned from Bladeforums the same as Cliff for simply speaking the truth because of conflicting popular public opinion.

[vivi]

The funny thing is I'm not even interested in AEB-L because I think it will have magical edge holding properties. I'm interested in it because I know it sharpens very quickly, takes an incredibly fine edge easily, is very corrosion resistant and is stable at thin edge angles. Tbat's what I want out of a steel. I EDC BD1 which has similar properties.

I doubt anyone else is asking for this steel hoping for maximum edge retention compared to Spydercos current offerings.

[Ankerson]

Jim you've made your opinion on the steel clear. The vast majority of your statements are not precise enough to confirm or refute, Larrin has addressed the ones that are. If you have data or more precise statements then I'm all ears (but we've done this before).

Additionally, dismissively calling any steel "just a [blank] steel," referring to its origins when discussing knives is patently ludicrous. Almost every single requested steel was originally developed or used for something other than handheld knife blades. The grand irony here is that the one we're discussing was developed or used for an application that's far closer to a handheld knife blade than any of the others.

Actually no it's not.

Razor blade steel.

Mass produced razor blades, have you even seen how razor blades are made?

We aren't talking about straight razors here.

The properties of AEB-L are more than well known, also the reason why almost nobody uses it in production knives.

A few custom guys deal with it here and there, most of the ones I talked to and talk to don't want anything to do with it.

Some do use it on request however.

Believe me it's NOT what some would have people to believe it is, it really isn't.

Most would like AUS-8, BD-1 MUCH better than AEB-L.

I really hope Spyderco makes a Mule Team in AEB-L, I really do.

[Eli Chaps]

I can safely say I've never seen a PhD handle with such kindness a layperson dismissing his views without any citations.

Seriously. Not that i can say i rub elbows with doctors very often. But i think I'd be firmly out of bounds if i told albert einstein i knew more than he about general relativity, same with ankerson and larrin and steel properties. Maybe Cliff Stamp was right being so dismissive, and even impatient, with guys like Ankerson. The same thing applied there.

I wonder how long Larrin has until he is banned from Bladeforums the same as Cliff for simply speaking the truth because of conflicting popular public opinion.

DISCLAIMER: What follows isn't directed at any one in this thread or meant to imply that one party is right or not. This is just a general observation...

So it's funny to me that the "PhD" thing got brought up because as I read the last couple pages of this thread I was thinking how much it reminded me of the countless debates/arguments I've been in and/or witnessed to with PhD's and what we'll just call "technicians" for discussion sake.

For many years now I've worked with PhD's every day, all day in one of the most challenging and difficult metallurgical fields out there. I can assure you, a PhD is FAR from a golden card of expertise. I used to be infatuated with PhD's, nowadays, it is they who have to earn my respect over the uneducated but experienced worker. When a grizzled, old caster talks, I listen intently. I can't tell you how many times I've personally been involved in situations where an experienced operator will recommend something that a PhD will be staunchly against and will show a gillion charts and a whiteboard of equations to support their position only to have the original suggestion actually work in application. A lot of times, we never truly understand why, but it is real indeed.

Don't get me wrong, some of the people I most admire are PhD's and I treasure working with and learning from them but the truth is, they are the exception.

I challenge PhD's regularly and legitimately. I often don't have data on my side and sometimes I just have my gut. Sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right.

The ideal is the balance between the "table top science" and the actual practical application. When a scientist and an old operator come together and work in synch it can really be a beautiful thing.

Anyway, back to the discussion. Which by the way, I know nothing about. :D