FRN Take Over...

[samdasnake]

I'd be perfectly happy if Spydercoused nothing but FRN going forward. Don't think that'll happen but I like FRN so much more than any other handle material. I don't understand people saying FRN is more abrasive than G10 the way Spyderco textures them. The G10 is usually like sandpaper that tears up my pockets (with a few notable exceptions).

[gull wing]

Now that Spyderco has mastered the "solid" feel in FRN, I like it more than G10.
I like the grip of FRN, but it is light, it makes a knife have good balance. Don't like a butt heavy knife. I had a Caly 3 once that just slipped out of my hand and into my leg.

[Airlsee]

I thought Eric was pretty clear in the Knifecenter video that was linked somewhere around here in the last week. He said that not only was FRN cheaper but it was also significantly faster to produce knife scales in FRN than G10. He seemed like right now they are doing everything they can to keep up with demand and are getting swamped.

The FRN is so that they can get knives out on to the market quicker and at a lower price point. I don't think G10 knives are going anywhere, I just think that we will see a lot more FRN knives coming out as well.

[sal]

We try to offer enough variety that all of your preferences are available. However, we have found that G-10, with or without liners, has a "cost" tipping point. We've usually made a slab version of a new design to "test" market reception before tooling up for FRN.

However, lately, we've noticed that the G-10 "pilot test" fall short of giving us the information sought because the higher price significantly reduces sales.

We have recently gone straight to FRN tooling in models like the "Rock Jumper" because of the needed to hear more reaction on the handle forward concept.

This is far more complicated because of the artificially inexpensive value of the Chinese Yuan. We are competing with high tech knife manufacturing companies in China that have all of the equipment and technology, but they can offer their products with 1/6th the cost and make more profit even with lower price. Most of the American knife companies are heavily involved with Chinese production to be able to compete with price.

Making models in FRN gives us a better opportunity to compete. It does beg the question about American made products in the future?

sal

[ladybug93]

It does beg the question about American made products in the future?

that is a sad statement. i tend to go for cheaper models personally and i usually don't care where a knife is made, but i don't like this at all. i wonder if there will ever be a turning point for chinese manufacturing (and/or government) that forces them to be honest competitors in the world economy as well as provide higher standards for workers.

[Airlsee]

We try to offer enough variety that all of your preferences are available. However, we have found that G-10, with or without liners, has a "cost" tipping point. We've usually made a slab version of a new design to "test" market reception before tooling up for FRN.

However, lately, we've noticed that the G-10 "pilot test" fall short of giving us the information sought because the higher price significantly reduces sales.

We have recently gone straight to FRN tooling in models like the "Rock Jumper" because of the needed to hear more reaction on the handle forward concept.

This is far more complicated because of the artificially inexpensive value of the Chinese Yuan. We are competing with high tech knife manufacturing companies in China that have all of the equipment and technology, but they can offer their products with 1/6th the cost and make more profit even with lower price. Most of the American knife companies are heavily involved with Chinese production to be able to compete with price.

Making models in FRN gives us a better opportunity to compete. It does beg the question about American made products in the future?

sal

Thanks for the explanation sal, I don't think the demand for American made knives is going to go anywhere. But I do think that all major knife companies are going to have to play in China as well.

American made knives are going to cost more, the average knife consumer just needs to understand this. The demand is there for both high value import knives and high quality American produced products.

At least this is my understanding and my hope.

[archangel]

Well there you go. FRN from the start, no G10 kick-off production. My fear is real....

[PeaceInOurTime]

... The main advantage of FRN is grip texture and potentially lower cost, and subjectively better looks than a boring flat slab of G10. I like the bidirectional texture a lot, I think it adds style and character to knives and wish they'd do something similar on G10. ...

+1
G10 is nice and I'm glad it's an option, but Spyderco's FRN with bidirectional texture and colors are what originally caught my attention to the brand. I remember seeing Nutnfancy's videos of the Delica/Endura FFG with pastel colors around ~2010(?) -- my first experience with Spyderco and I thought it was the coolest thing. (Say what you will about Nutnfancy, I rarely watch his content, but he introduced alot of people to Spyderco and knives in general.) Spyderco's bidirectional FRN looks and feels much higher quality than typical plastic knife handles.

Cost is also a factor in my knife purchases and FRN certainly provides lower cost.

[aicolainen]

Like the youtuber says, quality is about effort, not geography. And there is no shortage on Chinese effort.
Still I’ve made a choice not to buy Chinese as long as there is a viable alternative, and with knives there usually is.
It’s not the knife makers fault, at least if one look past the fact that most of the knives they produce are totally uninteresting to me, they are rather just innocent casualties in my effort to vote with my money. A vote for better values.

*disclaimer: I do have one spot in my collection for a Chinese knife. It’s currently held by the Banter, but it will move on when my Peña x-series arrives. Borderline hypocrisy, I know, but I’m an enthusiast so it’s hard to entirely dismiss Chinese knives when so many these days are designed by high profile western designers. I was very curious to see Ben’s take on knife design and where I live you have to buy stuff and have it shipped if you want to hold it in your hand.
Similar story with Peña. I think his customs look amazing, but they are way out of my league.

A little OT there, but although US made isn’t as important to customers outside the US, we are not totally ignorant to country of origin. In light of Sal’s post I just wanted to get that through.

[metaphoricalsimile]

G10 is nice and I'm glad it's an option, but Spyderco's FRN with bidirectional texture and colors are what originally caught my attention to the brand. I remember seeing Nutnfancy's videos of the Delica/Endura FFG with pastel colors around ~2010(?) -- my first experience with Spyderco and I thought it was the coolest thing. (Say what you will about Nutnfancy, I rarely watch his content, but he introduced alot of people to Spyderco and knives in general.) Spyderco's bidirectional FRN looks and feels much higher quality than typical plastic knife handles.

Cost is also a factor in my knife purchases and FRN certainly provides lower cost.

This is a really good point. I don't think I will ever buy another knife with a black handle because I just like colors too much.

[Naperville]

I like the diversity of knives, handles, blade profiles and steels.

I'd like to see some larger knives with full length liners and G-10. Emerson Knives refers to these heavy duty knives as "XHD." I don't have any XHD knives, but I like them.

[kobold]

Objectively, my only (but severe) dislike is the absence of PB washers.

But for aesthetic and other reasons I am replacing FRN and even G10 with nicer stuff wherever I can.
I am selling my FRN Chaparral and replacing the gray G10 on the Maxamet knives with wooden scales.

[zhyla]

We are competing with high tech knife manufacturing companies in China that have all of the equipment and technology, but they can offer their products with 1/6th the cost and make more profit even with lower price.

This may be worth a dedicated thread, but I’m curious why the CNC automation of knife production hasn’t leveled the playing field a bit? I know you have to pay the machine operators way more here, is that the bulk of it? Are materials cheaper in China as well? Is there a volume advantage at play as well? I’m sure a knife making facility in China can run 24/7 as they are producing millions of knives a year.

[S-3 ranch]

I am a old time spyderco carrier, and y’all forget when spyderco started 90% of the knives were
FRN , with two exceptions, if memory is correct
1. The police came with metal scale
2. The PM had G-10 scale

So I am 100% ok with what is the building blocks of spyderco, matter of fact FRN and spydie edge serrated edge and round hole are what made things stand out and unequivocally unique back in the 1990’s

[JRinFL]

The Chinese are taking advantage of the West’s increasingly myopic focus on short term gains. While the US shutters and dumps firms not meeting their short term projections, the Chinese quietly buy up the old firms for pennies on the dollar. At the same time they are spreading money far and wide to control all of the resources. Combine that with what Sal refers to the artificially inexpensive yuan and the relatively poor employee compensation you have an unstoppable juggernaut. Moving production to China will only delay the inevitable. Move it over there and they truly will “control the means of production”.

[ladybug93]

I am a old time spyderco carrier, and y’all forget when spyderco started 90% of the knives were
FRN , with two exceptions, if memory is correct
1. The police came with metal scale
2. The PM had G-10 scale

So I am 100% ok with what is the building blocks of spyderco, matter of fact FRN and spydie edge serrated edge and round hole are what made things stand out and unequivocally unique back in the 1990’s

yep.

[40mm]

I am a old time spyderco carrier, and y’all forget when spyderco started 90% of the knives were
FRN , with two exceptions, if memory is correct
1. The police came with metal scale
2. The PM had G-10 scale

So I am 100% ok with what is the building blocks of spyderco, matter of fact FRN and spydie edge serrated edge and round hole are what made things stand out and unequivocally unique back in the 1990’s

yep.

yep yep. Spyderedge and FRN is all I care to carry. 8 months straight with this guy...

[Wartstein]

I'd be perfectly happy if Spydercoused nothing but FRN going forward. Don't think that'll happen but I like FRN so much more than any other handle material. I don't understand people saying FRN is more abrasive than G10 the way Spyderco textures them. The G10 is usually like sandpaper that tears up my pockets (with a few notable exceptions).

This.
In my experience Spydercos FRN knives are a lot "nicer" to the pocket than their G10 ones.
As said, this will probably be to a large part due to the smooth logo on the FRN, where the clip lands on.

[Matus]

Are those Seki and Golden FRN (finishes?) really so different? Could anyone post a few close-ups of say a Delica and a Para 3?

[nerdlock]

Are those Seki and Golden FRN (finishes?) really so different? Could anyone post a few close-ups of say a Delica and a Para 3?

Delica vs Para 3, definitely, definitely different. While I extremely love the Para 3 LW I would really like the FRN to be Seki-like.