Recs for Self Defense while running/biking?

[JRinFL]

I don’t think the OP posted where she lives so we are can only guess. However, if she is in mountain lion county, then telling her to run or cycle faster is a bad joke. You can’t out run them. There have been reports of people saving themselves or others by using a pocket knife during a mountain lion attack, so there’s that. Feral dog packs are concern in some areas as well.
Somebody mentioned running or biking with a partner and that is the best advice. The knife is still a “value add” with a partner.

[pantagana23]

Running / cycling faster?

Drive a motorcycle? :D

[Marko]

I love how a simple question about making a knife recommendation has turned how to conduct self-defense... I just read through this thread and see you guys rehashing arguments about SD and knives that where played out on BF almost 20yrs ago.

OP asked for knife recommendations not SD advice or philosophies...

[ChrisinHove]

..... telling her to run or cycle faster is a bad joke...

You’re probably right! I’ve never lived anywhere where a SD weapon was a necessity for any leisure activity and so can’t really conceive that it would enable a pleasurable leisure experience.

The obvious choice would be the Lil Matriarch or Matriarch - and a very clear understanding of your responsibility if you choose to carry a weapon in an unarmed society.

[James Y]

I love how a simple question about making a knife recommendation has turned how to conduct self-defense... I just read through this thread and see you guys rehashing arguments about SD and knives that where played out on BF almost 20yrs ago.

OP asked for knife recommendations not SD advice or philosophies...

And people have given recommendations. And this isn’t BF. From what I’ve read, the intent of the posts is to be helpful to OP.

Anybody is free to either read or disregard any posts they don’t find helpful or don’t like.

Jim

[James Y]

Finding a regular partner for running or biking is not always possible for every person.

OhBuoyancy:

Since you stated your area has a 3” blade length limit, my recommendation would be the Salt 2 Wharncliffe.

Jim

[Naperville]

Good morning everyone! I'm new to the knife world but have already gotten quite obsessed. I currently EDC a Civivi Ortis but I NEED a Spyderco (I'm sure you understand).
I often run or bike alone in fairly secluded areas and for some reason my family worries about my safety, something to do with me being a woman probably. Personally, I worry more about wildlife than interaction with other humans. I usually carry pepper spray but that doesn't satisfy this and this sounds like a good excuse to buy a knife.
I'm thinking something in the salt series because it will get wet in my pocket from sweat and I live in a humid area. Small and lightweight are of course important as well. I'd also like it to be scary looking :D Oh, and we have that 3" blade law here, though my Civivi is bigger than that. I like the Dragonfly for looks and size but it's not very scary looking.

There is a gun and knife show coming here next weekend. I've never been to one so I'm wondering if it would be worth waiting for to pick up a knife there (or just check them out in person before buying elsewhere), or should I just go ahead an order online. I'm aware of the seconds sale so if I'm able to grab something from that I will, terrible luck with the site yesterday.

Many have made suggestions regarding knives as you desired. I'd sit down with the current Spyderco catalog on my screen and look over the suggestions. The LC200n and H1 steel suggestions are pretty solid.

I have a suggestion that has nothing to do with knives, and adds to your chemical warfare. I trained in cycling for many years and had two water bottle cages. One cage carried a water bottle, and the other cage carried a 50/50 bleach/water mix for those occasions where a dog came after us. As long as the cap fits tightly on the 50/50 mix, it should be able to spray 5 to 10 feet. This can be used on anything living, man or beast.

[Tiquito]

Looking at your request, BluetypeII and Sumdumguy gave you the best option:
Unless you have physical strength to get into a knife fight, you need a small lightweight pistol/revolver, and that's about it.

Pistols and knives are two defense tools for different circumstances and applications. One is not universally better than the other. There are scenarios in which a knife is vastly superior to a handgun. You statement is like telling some they need a hammer not a saw and that’s about it. In an ECQB situation or and entangled fight (think surprise a attack where the attacker had closed the distance and the victim is already well behind the power curve) a knife is often better than gun. If you haven’t at a minimum tested your theories on this through lots of force on force and scenario training, you may want to at least keep an open mind and be less conclusory in your claims.

[RustyIron]

This feels like feeble advice but it's pretty much the best advice I can give her.

My advice is still the same as it was for the OP. There are plenty of schools that specialize in teaching fighting skills to youngin's. In addition to exercise and fitness, they develop confidence and, of course, and ability to defend themselves.

[RustyIron]

I love how a simple question about making a knife recommendation has turned how to conduct self-defense... I just read through this thread and see you guys rehashing arguments about SD and knives that where played out on BF almost 20yrs ago.

And after twenty years, you're still bent out of shape about it? Awwww...

[pantagana23]

Looking at your request, BluetypeII and Sumdumguy gave you the best option:
Unless you have physical strength to get into a knife fight, you need a small lightweight pistol/revolver, and that's about it.

Pistols and knives are two defense tools for different circumstances and applications. One is not universally better than the other. There are scenarios in which a knife is vastly superior to a handgun. You statement is like telling some they need a hammer not a saw and that’s about it. In an ECQB situation or and entangled fight (think surprise a attack where the attacker had closed the distance and the victim is already well behind the power curve) a knife is often better than gun. If you haven’t at a minimum tested your theories on this through lots of force on force and scenario training, you may want to at least keep an open mind and be less conclusory in your claims.

I do understand your point, but tell me if you didn't have any training or even brute force for that matter, would you rather have a gun or a knife?

Just thinking of it, I would like to correct my advice, a taser gun is the best option.
Available everywhere, non lethal, and going to block (almost) any attack.

[sal]

Hi Ohbuoyancy,

Welcome to our forum.

Is your concern people or animals?

sal

[Tiquito]

Totally depends on the circumstances. I think understanding when one versus the other might be preferable necessitates an understanding of terminal ballistics and how wounding with a knife works. Not even all knives are the same so just saying a knife is even overly simplistic. If I was surprise attacked and had someone on top of me a knife might well be the VASTLY superior option. A gun is easier to take away and in an entanglement, particularly without the training to use it, a gun can easily end up inoperable. I think in an entanglement a gun is often easier to take away or out of the fight than a knife. Without any training either one has its whole own set of problems. Particularly in a surprise attack, I think many people may very well be better able to relentlessly stab and slash versus getting a gun out making the space to effectively use it, retaining the weapon, keeping it operational etc.

I don’t say this in a disparaging way but I think the way in which you and I envision each being potentially used and what an attack and subsequent fight might look like is probably pretty different. Google some of the shivworks videos for some insight into how a knife might be deployed in the scenario of a surprise attack. Bad guys often don’t signal their intention from a distance. That’s is One of the reasons intimidation factor might be highly irrelevant. Many scenarios in which a knife is the proper tool the fight has started before the victim knows it and well before the attacker has any idea the person is carrying that tool. Mode of carry and mind setof also play into it.

I’ve trained BJJ, Muay Thai and wrestled since I was a kid. I understand the relevance of strength and athleticism in a fight.

Frankly I carry both because they are different tools. I have trained a lot with guns but they aren’t the magic talisman that many seem to believe. I wouldn’t want to only carry a knife and forgo a gun by any means.

Tasers are horrendously unreliable. I have seen tasers fail MANY MANY times. I’ve seen them work the hammer of Thor too for what it’s worth. Just off the top of my head I could tell you failed taser stories for hours. If someone was on top of me trying to kill me I would MUCH rather have blade than a taser.

[Sumdumguy]

Looking at your request, BluetypeII and Sumdumguy gave you the best option:
Unless you have physical strength to get into a knife fight, you need a small lightweight pistol/revolver, and that's about it.

Pistols and knives are two defense tools for different circumstances and applications. One is not universally better than the other. There are scenarios in which a knife is vastly superior to a handgun. You statement is like telling some they need a hammer not a saw and that’s about it. In an ECQB situation or and entangled fight (think surprise a attack where the attacker had closed the distance and the victim is already well behind the power curve) a knife is often better than gun. If you haven’t at a minimum tested your theories on this through lots of force on force and scenario training, you may want to at least keep an open mind and be less conclusory in your claims.

I do understand your point, but tell me if you didn't have any training or even brute force for that matter, would you rather have a gun or a knife?

Just thinking of it, I would like to correct my advice, a taser gun is the best option.
Available everywhere, non lethal, and going to block (almost) any attack.

I would NEVER bet my life on a tazer. That is the worst advice possible, they are horribly ineffective. I would go bear spray, before I went tazer.

(Unless the agressor happens to be completely nude...)

[Josh Crutchley]

Where I live it isn't legal to carry basically anything if you have a self defence intent. That means you have a premeditated idea of violence therefore it's illegal. So me carrying a knife without a clear "normal" use intended for it is more or less illegal. I still do and I reckon I'll deal with that problem if I ever have contact with law enforcement (highly unlikely).

Thats how the laws are in Michigan but the prosecution has to prove you carried it with intent to use for self defense. Not really sure what kind of evidence they would need.

[Bolster]

Totally depends on the circumstances...

Thought provoking post. Thanks Tiquito. I had not thought this through as carefully as you have.

[OhBuoyancy]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the advice. I will probably go with the Tasman. Maybe a Native salt (too?) cause I see it being useful in other ways and I like the look.

I don’t expect to ever have to use the knife in a self defense situation (at least not against a person) it would just make my family feel better if I had some kind of weapon and I’m not interested in carrying a gun, which is what they would prefer. Plus I’ve recently become interested in knives and this is a good excuse to buy one! So it’s really just to get another knife and placate family.

I do run with a large dog about half of the time but I prefer to run without other people, it’s my alone time.

If I had to really come up with a possible situation in which I would need to protect myself it would most likely be an animal attack. Stay dogs and wild hogs are my top concerns. I have been knocked down by a dog before and chased several times both running and biking. What if the dog were to knock me down and keep attacking/biting me? Would I be able to get the knife out and use it to injure him enough to be able to get away? That’s the kind of scenario I would be concerned with. There are bears, coyotes, snakes, and gators too but I’m not as concerned about them plus a bear would probably laugh at a knife.

I’m in Florida btw.

[Abyss_Fish]

That new lc200n pac salt would do nicely, if it’s pure self defense go serrated.

[VooDooChild]

Im also in Florida. I once walked up on a black bear in the middle of the night. About 20 feet from it. As soon as I said something it went up a tree.

Snakes are dangerous but they arent going to chase you down, just dont step on one. As far as gators go, I just wouldnt run next to the waters edge of an unfamiliar body of water.

Hogs and dogs are the real concern. For the record neither of those can climb trees. My best advice would be to avoid areas they are known to be in. An older man was actually killed by a pack of dogs about an hour and a half from where I live a week ago.

Can you get to your knife in time to use it? I will put it like this, if you have enough time to get that knife out during an animal attack then you have already been injured. With that said, when you dont have much of a choice, you have to use what you got.

You can gut a large dog, but you might have to sacrifice an arm or leg to do it. You would certainly need medical attention after the fact. Wild boar are ridiculous, the big ones scare me. I have seen big ones take shots from handguns like its nothing. Im not going to say a person couldnt kill one with nothing but a knife, but you are going to get hurt. If a big boar got after me, I would hope there was something easy to climb very close. Climb something and call for help.

As others have said pepper spray/ mace can work. Im pretty sure I could take out a dog with a 3 inch blade knowing I would still get injured doing it. But a 300 plus pound wild hog... I would try to avoid that scenario. Edit: Thats a very big weight I threw out but a wild hog even half that weight would be insanely difficult to fend off with a small knife. If it was bound and determined to attack you, youre probably screwed.

For the record I have not seen boar/hogs near larger developed areas. They stay a bit off the beaten path.

Edit: Its also been my experience that most wildlife doesnt want much to do with people to begin with.

[Menipo]

I don’t expect to ever have to use the knife in a self defense situation (at least not against a person) it would just make my family feel better if I had some kind of weapon and I’m not interested in carrying a gun, which is what they would prefer. Plus I’ve recently become interested in knives and this is a good excuse to buy one! So it’s really just to get another knife and placate family.

If I had to really come up with a possible situation in which I would need to protect myself it would most likely be an animal attack. Stay dogs and wild hogs are my top concerns. I have been knocked down by a dog before and chased several times both running and biking. What if the dog were to knock me down and keep attacking/biting me? Would I be able to get the knife out and use it to injure him enough to be able to get away? That’s the kind of scenario I would be concerned with. There are bears, coyotes, snakes, and gators too but I’m not as concerned about them plus a bear would probably laugh at a knife.

I’m in Florida btw.

If that is the case, don't hesitate for a second. Don't buy a knife. Just buy two. Forumites have have made you great recommendations. Why limit yourself to just one? In addition, du-plicating your purchase would du-placate your family! :D

If stay dogs and wild hogs are your top concern, rotate the several knives that you will buy (on second thought, why limit yourself to just two when you've received more than two great recommendations?) but carry them just as the last resort. Animals are not intimidated by knives (they don't know what they are), to stab one you have to stand very close and at that distance their "weapon"s are much more damaging than the blade of a knife and even if you stab them, unless you damage a vital organ, they won't even know (miracles of adrenaline) and won't stop attacking.

In these circumstances I repeat part of my initial advice. Take a self defense siren with you. It is a small and light object that is truly effective against animals. The chances of an animal fleeing at the piercing sound of an alarm are infinitely greater than at the sight of a 3" blade ...

And use the knife then if you have no other choice: if you are already being bitten by the animal and then you have to fight for your life, your leg or your arm ...