Spyderco Forums

Hi Doc,

We just received our 19C27 rom Sandvik.

Hey P_atrick,

A thousand ponds works well, or did, for Mule Team runs. As far as ordering steel, we usually order much larger quantities.

sal

sal wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:24 pm

Hi Doc,

We just received our 19C27 rom Sandvik.

Hey P_atrick,

A thousand ponds works well, or did, for Mule Team runs. As far as ordering steel, we usually order much larger quantities.

sal

Sal,

May I request a piece of that 19C27 steel from you for testing?

-Shawn

Hi Shawn,

I asked Alex to cut piece for you. Email him.

sal

Wow... am I in the wrong line of work... Sal and Shaun your jobs are a lot more fun.

Deadboxhero wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:31 pm

sal wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:24 pm

Hi Doc,

We just received our 19C27 rom Sandvik.

Hey P_atrick,

A thousand ponds works well, or did, for Mule Team runs. As far as ordering steel, we usually order much larger quantities.

sal

Sal,

May I request a piece of that 19C27 steel from you for testing?

-Shawn

I'm playing catch up with this thread - what can we expect from 19C27 compared to 12C27 and other more common swedish steels?

I thought 19C27 improved edge holding and corrosion resistance with lower toughness relative to 12C27 and family.

vivi wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:42 am

Deadboxhero wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:31 pm

sal wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:24 pm

Hi Doc,

We just received our 19C27 rom Sandvik.

Hey P_atrick,

A thousand ponds works well, or did, for Mule Team runs. As far as ordering steel, we usually order much larger quantities.

sal

Sal,

May I request a piece of that 19C27 steel from you for testing?

-Shawn

I'm playing catch up with this thread - what can we expect from 19C27 compared to 12C27 and other more common swedish steels?

The idea is the edge will not blunt smooth in use with lots of cutting compared to 12C27/1428CN/13C27/AEB-L
Yet, we get a high quality swedish steel with excellent processing and annealing from the steel maker and perhaps lower impurities and inclusions compared to non swedish steels of similar carbide size and volume.

The increased edge wear resistance over AEB-L type steel will be due to the larger primary carbides which are also at higher volume, this is obviously a trade-off. Its important to remind folks that both of these steels have inherent trade-offs.

The primary carbides are supposedly very hard K2 carbides, it would be interesting to do a CATRA study with Dr. Larrin to see if the chemistry of these K2 carbides shows a difference compared to other stainless steels with similar chromium carbide volume. Perhaps no difference, thats why we test things to find out, so special thanks to Sal, Spyderco and Dr Larrin.




Here is an image of the microstructure AEB-L the fine white dots are the hard chromium carbides.



With the 19C27 you can see the carbides are significantly larger with more volume.




Here is an image of 154cm ( Non PM version) to put the carbide sizes of 19c27 into context.




These micrographs come from
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/ ... fe-steels/

A good reminder to support Knife Steel Nerds on Patreon which pays for these very expensive micrographs and other testing that we all get to share and enjoy publicly.
I put the shameless plug here because cool stuff like this isn't free and it's often taken for granted until its gone. Just a reminder to appreciate good work.




The 19c27 might be an interesting sweet spot in this area for which they are not many steels filling in this gap. So we'll see how it does with charpy impact testing with the Good Doctor.


https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/ ... esistance/

Regardless of all this testing it would also be interesting just to see what edge geeks think about it. We don't really get a chance to play with higher wear resistance swedish steels.

I've read that 19C27 can be hardened to 63/64. Would this push edge retention a bit closer to S35VN et al.?

p_atrick wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:20 am

I've read that 19C27 can be hardened to 63/64. Would this push edge retention a bit closer to S35VN et al.?

I'm not sure what hardness can be achieved in a production setting, that will have to be determined.

Also if such hardness can be achieved but at a detriment with increased retained austenite, carbide formation on the grain boundaries and larger grain sizes it certainly wouldn't be ideal in use.

That's why we try to explain to people that the hardness number itself is not a guarantee of high performance but it seems to fall on deaf ears people just care about the number itself without any understanding of microstructure.

Looking forward to a Sandvik Mule Team and hopefully more!

The Bow River in 19C27 would be awesome.

Yep, really interesting stuff!
Curious to see how things pan out with these steels and, if they do seem good to go for Spyderco, I’ll second the notion that a knife like the Bow River would be a neat application of 19C27.

The Bow River is a somewhat nice vessel for testing steels in “real world use” from my perspective as it’s relatively inexpensive, a versatile design that would see many different kinds of use, and comes with a nice sheath and handle.
Its not a Mule, but I wouldn’t be opposed to buying and comparing Bow Rivers in 18Cr13MoV and 19C27 is all I’m saying. I’d probably be interested a lot of knives with the steel if it does fall into the range of performance that BBB hypothesized above.

I agree that a Bow River would be a great platform for this steel. I would hazard a guess that due to logistics, the price wouldn't be as attractive.

Klaatu... Barataaaaa.. N<sneezes>
<thread is resurrected, creepy things move in the dark>

Just wanted to say I agree about a 19v27 Bow River. Great design and platform, surprisingly affordable, which means that while 19c27 would surely cost more, it would probably be conpwtitive with similar knives in comparable steels.

Not that there aren't already too many cool releases for me to reasonably buy all, but this would be up there.

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