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Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:10 pm
by TomAiello
demoncase wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:26 pm
Regardless of what I might find distasteful and needlessly cruel- it's entirely up to the Spanish to decide what should be banned.
That's a very wise viewpoint. I wish more people in this world thought like you.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:12 pm
by Naperville
The Deacon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:36 am
By that logic, we should allow dueling.
As for the bulls, is the meat used, or wasted? If the later, I'd agree with you. But, if the former, why is being killed in a bull ring any worse than being killed in a slaughterhouse? Please don't try to convince me those animals don't know something bad is about to happen, not that I've ever let that stop me from enjoying a steak or a hamburger.
Did you know that in Washington State, you can have a public fight. You can have an argument with someone, and it may turn in to a challenge match right there on the street, and the cops will even provide "security" for the match. No charges will be pressed.
This is how it should be. Big mouths and thugs might think twice before picking fights with people who are unable to protect themselves, because a bystander may decide to beat them at their game.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:15 am
by shunsui
Evil D wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:17 am
If the bull didn't get ran through the streets for miles and stabbed several times before getting to the ring it might be more fair and then maybe I'd be ok with it.
I'd have to agree with this. I saw a bullfight in Spain a long time ago. El Cordobés if I recall correctly. It wasn't something that appealed to your sense of fair play. I wonder how many people root for the bull to kill the matador. Maybe that's the whole subversive point ?
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:31 am
by SpyderEdgeForever
Amazing and fascinating insights.
Michael, that is very neat that you lived in Spain. If I may ask, how did you like the food there, such as the traditional tapas and things? I have heard they make some very great local meats and cheeses and also breads, as do the French and others, ofcourse. Also, at the time did you visit their famous knife stores and handle and see the traditional Spanish Navajas? Those are very good knives.
I have heard some advocates who believe engineers should build realistic animatronic robotic bulls for bull fights and animatronic human looking boxer robots for boxing, to replace actual living animals and actual people, so the audience/fans get to see the physical activities without any harm being done to the animals or the humans. Do you all think this would ever be worth it for human science and engineering to produce, or, it would be a waste because fans would not want to see that done?
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:01 am
by MichaelScott
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:31 am
Amazing and fascinating insights.
Michael, that is very neat that you lived in Spain. If I may ask, how did you like the food there, such as the traditional tapas and things? I have heard they make some very great local meats and cheeses and also breads, as do the French and others, ofcourse. Also, at the time did you visit their famous knife stores and handle and see the traditional Spanish Navajas? Those are very good knives.
I have heard some advocates who believe engineers should build realistic animatronic robotic bulls for bull fights and animatronic human looking boxer robots for boxing, to replace actual living animals and actual people, so the audience/fans get to see the physical activities without any harm being done to the animals or the humans. Do you all think this would ever be worth it for human science and engineering to produce, or, it would be a waste because fans would not want to see that done?
The food is great. Never visited a knife store so I have no knowledge of Spanish knives.
I suppose there would be some who would like to see robots destroy one another. Look at the popularity of fighting, “bloody” video games. But that misses the point. A real human being has no skin in that game, no risk, no possibility of getting dead if they screw up. All of us risk death. It is those who refuse to be ruled by that who really live.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:10 pm
by Naperville
We have Battle Bots. Soon humans will be battling robots everywhere. In war. In the streets. For jobs.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:33 pm
by MichaelScott
Soon the bots build bots who design and build more bots. All those bots become the means of production. They continue to produce at a geometric rate but bots don’t consume. They don’t get paid. More bots make more money and give it all to humans so humans can consume what the bots are producing. Humans become slaves whose only jobs are to spend, consume, recycle, trash and make more little consumers.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:38 pm
by Bloke
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:01 pm
by The Meat man
Bloke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:38 pm
Bloke, how do you do it?! :D
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:15 pm
by TkoK83Spy
I'd be more scared of that creepy contraption than an actual bull hahah!
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:04 pm
by Halfneck
MichaelScott wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:54 am
I lived in Spain for two years. I studied the history of bullfighting and read
Death in the Afternoon. I have seen many bullfights. I have sat by the road and watched the toros and
vaca bravas for hours. It is obvious that few Americans understand what a corrida is about or how it is done, much less why.
A Spanish toro is by nature a serious and deadly fighting animal. So is man (refer to our long history of killing one another). There are few arenas in which humans get to test themselves with the outcome of success or death. We have managed to remove that factor from almost everything and consider those who refuse to comply as crazy, thrill-seeking lunatics. Even the “brutal” and inherently dangerous activities like MMA, car racing and sword fighting have been regulated to reduce the chance of death.
The bull gets to go out fighting according to its nature and so does the torero. The dead bull is used for food, usually for those who can’t afford much. Same can’t be said for the matador.
It’s easy to denigrate the practices and activities of a different culture that we don’t understand. Happens all the time.
Yea if I was a bull I'd rather a shot to go down fighting than be killed in a slaughterhouse.
Not my kind of thing, but it's also not my culture so it's not my place to judge. I'm a fan of boxing and martial arts, I was a soldier. I understand the desire to test oneself in the arena of life.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:49 am
by ThePeacent
I was born in Spain and have lived there my entire life, as has all family
Bull fighting is at the same level as dog fighting or cock fighting in my view. It was banned as a sport and event in my province (Catalunya) a few years back. :)
Needless to say, Catalunya is the province with the longest life expectancy, highest average IQ, and level of studies, highest taxes, as well as quality of life, income and tourism, and lowest illiteracy... :o
Maybe there's a relationship between those two?
SEF: our food is very good, specialties like Churros, Paella, Torrijas, Coca de LLardons, our Cold Cuts (Jamón Ibérico being the most iconic one, but also Chorizo, Botifarra, Salchichón, Lomo Embuchado, Fuet, Llonganissa...) and Cheeses (Idiazabal, Manchego, Torta del Casar, Cabrales, Queso de Burgos, Recuit de Drap...) and our Oils, Condiments, Sauces and Spreads (Sobrasada, Romesco, Allioli, Olivada...) are a good reason on their own to come and visit!! :p
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:15 pm
by demoncase
TomAiello wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:10 pm
demoncase wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:26 pm
Regardless of what I might find distasteful and needlessly cruel- it's entirely up to the Spanish to decide what should be banned.
That's a very wise viewpoint. I wish more people in this world thought like you.
It's kept me safe on my travels around the world.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:03 pm
by Ankerson
I cheer for the bull, that's all I have to say on that.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:41 pm
by BLUETYPEII
I don’t like bull fighting I think it’s cruel and unethical. I always hope the bull wins, but in the end they never do.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:39 am
by SpyderEdgeForever
A Spaniard once told me one of the delicious activities growing up was to use the first Spanish-made Navaja Knife to cut pieces of Spanish beef, cheese, ham, sausage, and bread, and make sandwiches from this. He said the classical navajas made with Spanish stainless steel are the best. The only foreign (non Spanish) knife that beats that is the Spyderco Navaja with its S30V stainless steel blade.
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:35 am
by ThePeacent
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:39 am
i]to use the first Spanish-made Navaja Knife to cut pieces of Spanish beef, cheese, ham, sausage, and bread, and make sandwiches from this[/i].
Most of us did that every day,
some of us still do. :o
Here's one that I brought into school, to open food wrapping and packages, back in the day :D
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:59 pm
by SpyderEdgeForever
Peacent my friend that is an excellent looking little knife. The edge looks razor-sharp, too. I love those classic navajas!
Re: Bull Fighting: Is it barbaric and savage or a good cultural thing?
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:47 pm
by Water Bug
It is a cultural event, and it is up to the culture to decide.