Micro bevel / polished edge questions

[Linguini3]

Hi everyone, I recently chipped a good chunk off the tip of my Manix, in addition to letting the Manix and the rest of my knives pretty dull. I've been looking into sharpeners and think I am going to go with the Triangle Sharpmaker. However, once i get my knives nice and sharp i want to make sure they stay that way for a decent amount of time :D .

I just have a few questions about sharpening with S30V blades. I have heard that if you put a nice mirror edge polish on the blades cutting edge that S30V will retain razor sharpness longer. How would I go about applying a mirror edge to my blades? ( I remember hearing about polishing compounds and such but how do i apply them?)

Also, I've seen talk about adding a Micro-bevel as a means of making sharpening easier and fortifying edge retention. I'm assuming that you sharpen the blade with a 30 degree angle first and then finish off with a quick pass through the 40 degree angle, or is there another way?. (P.S. does adding a Micro-bevel really help retain sharpness/ make sharpening easier?)

Just been wondering because my S30V blades loose their nice edges really fast and I havent sharpened a knife before :o .

[.357 mag]

I can't speak for the Sharpmaker or 30SV but I have the edgepro sharpener and it puts a very good high polished edge on every knife I have. I heard the sharpmaker can to put a scary sharp edge on blades to but could take longer to obtain that perfect edge.

[SQSAR]

You seem to have a pretty good grasp of what needs to be done, and also with the fact that the Shaprmaker is a really good tool with which to do it.

I too, as well as many others, have found that S30V looses that initial sharpness very quickly, while keeping that overall edge for a while. I hate this about the steel, but still consider it pretty nice overall. I've found two things to help mitigate this:

(1) I take my 30 degree 'back-bevel' all the way to the Spyderco ultra-fine rods, and this gets this portion wicked polished. Then, keeping the same angle, I strop it on leather coated with 3 micron diamond paste (and sometime to 1 or .5). S30V will fight a nice polish, but it will take one, just be patient and make sure you patiently work through all the stages of grit, be it ceramic, stones, or diamonds.

(2) Next, I go to the 40 degree 'edge' and basically work through the same process. A word of caution here though, , , while working the 40 degree edge there is little room for error as this is producing your actual cutting edge. When I was new to the Sharpmaker I think I found a point of diminishing returns on this stage as I had not yet built the muscle memory to keep those angles right on the money to produce that uniformed edge.

Practice the 'zen' of using the Sharpmaker and you will find you get better and better with it, and are able to take that 40 degree edge to a wicked sweet edge.

I say all this speaking only to my personal success in sharpening, and in a constant state of trying to learn more. I trust many posts will follow with better advice, from sharpeners far more skilled than I. Good luck in taking up the art of sharpening. I suspect there is a good chance you will become addicted to razor sharp edges, just as many of us here are.

[Linguini3]

Thanks for the replies, looks like I'm going with the sharpmaker since its a little bit more affordable

(1) I take my 30 degree 'back-bevel' all the way to the Spyderco ultra-fine rods, and this gets this portion wicked polished.

SQSAR, when you say that you take it all the way you mean that you go through diamond hones, medium ceramic, fine, then ultra-fine?

[mongatu]

I started to write a lot of stuff but I think it's better if I just point you to a good resource/tutorial for some general basic info about knife sharpening. It is not specific to the Sharpmaker but the underlying principles apply to any sharpening method.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036

[SQSAR]

If re-profiling an edge (back-bevel 30 degree portion) I start with the Spyderco Diamond rods, Medium, Fine, Ultra-Fine, then my strops at 5, 3, and 1 micron diamond paste. When referring to "stones, diamond, ceramic" I was kind of meaning that patiently working through the progressively finer grits is the only way to end up with a mirror edge without having any furrow/scratch patterns showing on your final product regardless of the media or sharpening system you are using. Sorry I didn't clarify that. :o

Speaking of angles, , ,I use the 30 and 40 degree paradigm that is inherent to the Shaprmaker more often than not. I find this works great with the S30V you speak of (as well as many other steels); however, different steels lend themselves to different angles and this is a science I'm just barley starting to understand, but know several good guys on the forum who may be able to speak to that if you are ever curious.

Also, while I'm typing, I'd suggest looking for the forum member who goes by the handle of Unit. He has a link in his signature line to several pretty darn good videos he's done on sharpening. They are a must see, if you ask me.

[Simsmac]

Speaking of angles, , ,I use the 30 and 40 degree paradigm that is inherent to the Shaprmaker more often than not.

Do you do the 30° then 40° sharpening each time you sharpen a given knife, or is the 30° only occasionally, like it says in the Sharpmaker manual? What's the difference between the two methods (always 30° vs. occasionally 30°)?

[dbcad]

Linguini, If you haven't sharpened before you will have a learning curve. An edge pro system costs $200 plus, something I can't afford. I got a sharpmaker first to keep the knives sharp before they get too dull, then later got a DMT aligner set of diamond stones. I usally use the DMT system first if I let something get dull or want to reprofile, then finish with the Sharpmaker.

If your knives have just had the fine edge taken off use a sharpmaker.

If you're skilled you can put the edge on with bench stones. If You haven't sharpened I would suggest you read on it a little and figure out what it's about first. You'll get there

[xceptnl]

Linguini, If you haven't sharpened before you will have a learning curve. An edge pro system costs $200 plus, something I can't afford. I got a sharpmaker first to keep the knives sharp before they get too dull, then later got a DMT aligner set of diamond stones. I usally use the DMT system first if I let something get dull or want to reprofile, then finish with the Sharpmaker.

If your knives have just had the fine edge taken off use a sharpmaker.

If you're skilled you can put the edge on with bench stones. If You haven't sharpened I would suggest you read on it a little and figure out what it's about first. You'll get there

I love my DMT aligner set. I purchased the extra-extra fine stone to allow me to get that mirror edge that I have seen on others blades. The DMT is nice because it required very little concentration or effort or time to completely sharpen even an S30V blade back from dull to hair-popping. I hae about $45 invested in my entire sharpening system and DMT has great customer service. IMO

[SQSAR]

Do you do the 30° then 40° sharpening each time you sharpen a given knife, or is the 30° only occasionally, like it says in the Sharpmaker manual? What's the difference between the two methods (always 30° vs. occasionally 30°)?

The Sharpmaker DVD is right on, , , I only do the 30 degree thing occasionally once I've got the edge re-profiled. Pretty much as soon as I get a new knife I will 're-profile' the edge/back-bevel to 30 degrees, and get it as highly polished as I possibly can. Thereafter, it's just a matter of maintaining my 40degree 'edge' to keep it sharp as I can get it. I will touch-up the back-bevel as needed; but frankly, on the occasion I do re-polish the back-bevel, it's mainly for aesthetics rather than the need to really fix anything that has happened to the blade.

While I am absolutely convinced that the Sharpmaker is the best bang for the buck on the market, I do wish it was capable of a couple more angles. Can't have it all I guess, , at least not with anything even close to the Shaprmaker's awesome price.

[unit]

While I am absolutely convinced that the Sharpmaker is the best bang for the buck on the market, I do wish it was capable of a couple more angles. Can't have it all I guess, , at least not with anything even close to the Shaprmaker's awesome price.

I have perhaps uttered this sentiment in the past, but it is probably a bad idea. As is true with anything, you (a manufacturer) needs to keep it simple enough that anyone can use it. The sharpmaker is already perhaps too complex for the general public. Take a look at the forums (which do NOT represent the general public) and note how often the question arises regarding "which setting to use".

I suspect that forum users generally represent a small component of the general public. We are the ones that care about knives and have a desire to better understand how to care for them.

Anyway, my point is that the Sharpmaker is great, and Spyderco does make a device that allows for an infinite range of angles. They are called slip stones :D

To the OP. Your questions are good, but the answers they warrant could fill a book.

I suggest the Sharpmaker first (as demonstrated in the video...but augmented with a critical user understanding of the process). It will likely be a tool that you will always use...but primarily, it will be a tool that will assist and facilitate your learning of sharpening and edge maintenance. I believe that reading on forums or books for hours on end is worth about as much as simply spending an hour with the Sharpmaker, a magic marker, and a cheap knife. Seeing for yourself and internalizing the process is critical.

Worry about polishing AFTER you have achieved your goals in sharpening (weather those goals are shaving, splitting hair, or anything else). Polishing bevels is secondary, and should be learned much later in the process IMO. Refining/polishing the edge is the first step. Look at a NIB Spyderco...the bevels are not polished, but the edge is refined...that should be your first goal.

Once that is achieved, then you can explore the more time consuming task of polishing bevels. These look nice and perform slightly better than a coarser finished bevel, but many feel that the results are not a great enough improvement to warrant the effort needed to get there.

I have studied the subject in depth...I would be happy to share my findings on line or in private messages if you would like to review them and decide for yourself.

Edit to add: I do not agree with the notion that a mirror polished bevel will last or retain sharpness longer than a coarse bevel with a refined edge (micro bevel) in all cases.

[cheapmovies25]

i find with using hand stones that i do say 15 per side, 30 total except zdp i do 10. then with diamond go coarse, then fine, then fine arkansas. (u can use extra course for the first bevel and extra fine at the end, but i don't have those dmt's yet) after that i do like a 35 per side micro edge same way but finish with a steel or ceramic rod and then strop with flitz. to resharpen all u do is the 35 per side, but after like 6 months or so i reprofile and repeat the beginning to create a new bevel then micro again. so about every 4-5 sharpenings i'll reprofile usually, as by hand the edge will start to convex - that basically means after say 8 sharpenings you cannot get it hair poppin unless you start over with the 15 deg. bevel then 35 micro edge. also steel and strop every week, more or less. hope that helps. i've been sharpening for a long time, and i have found this to be my favorite overall way of sharpening a knife. if u just do say 20 each side it takes forever and the edge is weaker with no higher micro edge; to get it as sharp as raising the angle with the micro edge it would take forever and way too much metal off, so if it chips u loose a lot of metal. works for me :-)