H1 toughness??

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
edge-e
Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: South Western Canada.

H1 toughness??

Postby edge-e » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:08 pm

I have heard people talk about how H1 is very tough.Does anyone here know how tough, and what steel would compare to it.???? INFI??3V?? :confused:

thx.edge-e.

User avatar
Vivi
Member
Posts: 3847
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Postby Vivi » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:25 pm

Don't know how it compares to INFI, but I can say I've used my SE Tasman Salt to cut everything I've ever needed to cut, including skateboard griptape (Lowgrit sandpaper with adhesive backing), window screens, wood, plants, apples, cardboard, drywall, CAT5 and other cables, copper wire, thick plastic, staples, fingernails, blue jeans, plastic zip ties etc. Holds up great, I've never seen another stainless steel even in the same league as H1 when used on skateboard griptape.

Needless to say me and my big hands are eagerly awaiting the larger version of this knife.

RIOT
Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:25 pm

Postby RIOT » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:47 pm

I have a yellow SE Tasman Salt dedicated for deep sea fishing only. ive been going fishing very often latley about once a week. keep telling myself to take pics with the knife in hand but always forget.

anyways all my buddies are amazed on how sharp it is, we buy fozen squid and when the squid is still frozen solid i can jab the knife into it and pry the squid out, sometimes i think the blade is going to break at the tip somehow but never does.

I chummed up 50 mackerel in a bucket, cutting through bones and all with this knife and still cut like butter, im amazed sofar.

when if ever it gets dull it will be replaced with a H1 Spyderhawk SE

User avatar
Noble
Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:35 am
Location: Hawaii

Postby Noble » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:59 pm

Toughness is just one of the properties you can measure steel by. As far as H1 goes in that respect, its very tough, and it work hardens over time. So the more you use it and the more sharpening sessions it sees, the tougher it gets. I also use mine for fishing. I shorecast, and use it for everything thing from cutting bait to making tinder for the fire and everything in between. My pac salt in SE has proven herself more than worthy for all my blade tasks in this arena. Edge holding as of right now is fairly average, IMHO. I do need to sharpen my pac salt about every two outings. It is a fairly easy steel for me to sharpen, and gets sharp again pretty quick. And of course, never a spot of rust. :D Love my Pac Salt.

clovisc
Member
Posts: 4154
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:14 am
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska

Postby clovisc » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:36 pm

just used my PE aqua salt to cut open a can of olives... :D

i've done that plenty of times... :D
:spyder: :spyder: :spyder:

MANIXWORLD
Member
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: South Africa Capetown

Postby MANIXWORLD » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:27 pm

From what i have seen here on the Spyderco forums H1 blades look pretty tough,more prone to deformation than breakage.there's evidence of a Salt1 where the FRN handle broke and the blade was still intact!! Now to me,thats darn tough. My 2 Salt'1's i own are superb. If you can take a knife and leave it in saltwater,ammonia etc. And there's No signs of corrosion whatsoever..That shouts TOUGH to me...Got H1???

Ed Schempp
Member
Posts: 781
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Ephrata, Washington USA

good stuff

Postby Ed Schempp » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:51 pm

Spyderco had a couple of salt blades in their display cases at the SHOT show that were bent 90 degrees with out breaking. Busse knives advertises a 30 degree bend and in some cases 70 dgrees.

I found the the edge retention is not as good as VG 10, but like VG-10 is very user friendly as the edge will generally roll without much chipping and can usually be burninshed back with little effort.

H-1 has some of the properties of 300 series stainless steel, particularly in the least worked or ground portions of the blade. Infi steel does use Nitrogen like H1 but is still a Martinsitic steel rather than Austenitic (Martinsitic is hardenable by quenching, Austenitic is not. H1 is hardened by deformation.)

I'd be interested to see if Spyderco warranty and repair has had to deal with fixing tips on salt knives. I'm sure that the numbers are much smaller with comparable models of other steels....Take Care...Ed

User avatar
Jay_Ev
Member
Posts: 3048
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:57 pm
Location: South Bay, CA

Postby Jay_Ev » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:12 pm

Please take a look at this thread by forum member tonydahose for an interesting look @ H1. :cool:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <--- My Spydies <click the dancing banana!>

VashHash
Member
Posts: 3066
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Louisiana

Postby VashHash » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:46 pm

gotta love it when Ed drops by didn't know H-1 bent that much without breaking but good to know thanks Ed. I'll be getting my spyderhawk sometime next week when i get paid or get close to getting paid i dunno if i can wait to order til friday maybe order wednesday so it's in on friday but it's gonna be Spyderized WOOO

User avatar
dialex
Member
Posts: 9167
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Campina, Romania, Europe, Terra
Contact:

Postby dialex » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:11 am

Thanks Ed for the infos. Very instructive, as usually. :)
The mind commands the body and it obeys. The mind orders itself and meets resistance.

User avatar
Clawhammer
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 1:28 am
Location: Australia

Postby Clawhammer » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:28 am

Donovan808 wrote:Toughness is just one of the properties you can measure steel by. As far as H1 goes in that respect, its very tough, and it work hardens over time. So the more you use it and the more sharpening sessions it sees, the tougher it gets. I also use mine for fishing. I shorecast, and use it for everything thing from cutting bait to making tinder for the fire and everything in between. My pac salt in SE has proven herself more than worthy for all my blade tasks in this arena. Edge holding as of right now is fairly average, IMHO. I do need to sharpen my pac salt about every two outings. It is a fairly easy steel for me to sharpen, and gets sharp again pretty quick. And of course, never a spot of rust. :D Love my Pac Salt.
I'm experiencing the same as Donovan here..although I haven't been out that much lately. It seems 'softer' than say a Delicia in that I'm sharpening it more, but it takes no time to get the edge back. But it does seem to be getting harder in the last few sessions on the steel.

This is very subjective though...I'm pretty much in love with the thing and use it as much as possible, and sharpening it is hardly a chore :D It looks so **** cool and stylish. :cool:

User avatar
Lord vader
Member
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:24 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Postby Lord vader » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:57 am

I do a lot of salt water fishing and my pacific salt gets a lot of salt water exposure and gets a real workout.It is indeed a real tough knife which i highly recommend.And the edge retention does get better over time with use and periodic sharpenings.

Michael Janich
Member
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Longmont, CO USA
Contact:

Postby Michael Janich » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:50 am

As part of my new duties here at Spyderco, I've been brushing up on the full product line and filling in the blanks in my knowledge base (to be very honest, even while I was working for my previous employer, two of my three EDC knives were Spydercos and I still have more Spydies in my personal collection than any other brand--so I have been "keeping up").

Although I was aware of the non-corrosive properties of H1, I did not know the "full story" regarding the properties of this amazing steel. As Ed explained, it is an Austenitic steel. That makes it very special. The vast majority of steels used in the knife industry are Martensitic steels. They start out in an annealed (soft) form with an austenite structure, but to become usable as knives, they must be heat treated. The heat treating process raises the steel to critical temperature before it is quenched (rapidly cooled). The exact temperatures and quenching media for this process vary according to the steel alloy, but the basic goal is to transform the austenite structure of the steel to hard martensite so it will have the hardness to take an edge and be an effective cutting tool.

After the initial hardening portion of the heat treating process, the resulting knife is very hard, but also quite brittle and prone to breaking. To increase its toughness without compromising its cutting ability too much, the blade is tempered. This process re-heats the steel to a prescribed temperature to "draw" it to a lower hardness. In many cases, the tempering process is repeated more than once. Again, the idea is to hit the best balance between the properties of hardness and toughness.

One thing that bladesmiths and some other custom knifemakers do to get the best of both worlds is differential heat treating. As the name implies, the goal is to achieve "different" hardnesses in different parts of the blade. This is done by carefully heating the spine of the hardened blade with a torch to soften it without affecting the hardness of the edge. The result is a blade that has an extremely tough structure, while maintaining maximum hardness and edge retention at the cutting edge.

Japanese clay tempering--also a laborious hand process--also achieves differential heat treatment. The clay applied to the spine of the blade retains heat, allowing the edge to cool quickly to maximum hardness while the spine cools slower and achieves a tough, springy hardness.

Differentially heat treated blades are the perfect knives because they offer the very best compromise between edge hardness and toughness. The problem is that differential heat treating is very difficult to do as a manufacturing process--at least with conventional martensitic steels.

The "other" amazing thing about H1 (besides the fact that it is impervious to rust, which is already pretty amazing) is that, as an Austenitic steel, it does not go through the traditional heat treating process of other steels. Instead, it is a "work hardened" steel. The mechanical processes of shaping and grinding the steel selectively increase the hardness of the affected surfaces. If you think about that, you'll realize that, in the process of shaping a blade, the spine is "worked" the least. The primary bevels are "worked" significantly more in the grinding process. And the edge is "worked" the most. More work equals more hardness, which means that H1 has the exact same properties of differential hardness as expensive hand-forged blades and Japanese clay-tempered blades--all in a steel that is completely and totally immune to rust.

How cool is that?

To be very honest, I have never been a "steel geek." Although I certainly acknowledged the differences in performance of various steels, I have always focused more on edge geometry than metallurgy--particularly in production knives. What DID always fascinate me, however, were processes like clay tempering that allowed hand-crafted blades to do things that production knives couldn't. The more I learn about H1, the more jazzed I am about it. I will continue to share my knowledge and experiences with it as we go.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike
Michael Janich
Spyderco Special Projects Coordinator
Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts

User avatar
edge-e
Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: South Western Canada.

Postby edge-e » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:03 am

Thank you all for your comments. :) I learned some things I didn't know.H1 is amazing stuff for sure, Im sure we will keep finding out new things about this super steel and how well it does in certain area's.

More large H1 fixed blades pls :spyder: :D

User avatar
TooSharp
Member
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:04 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Postby TooSharp » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:40 am

I would love to see H1 in some other offerings with liners and G10 handles, not geared towards the salt series. I love sharpening H1, it takes an edge super easy, almost like carbon steel.

Ed Schempp
Member
Posts: 781
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Ephrata, Washington USA

Well stated Michael

Postby Ed Schempp » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:22 am

Great explanation of the steel Michael. Glad to see you at Spyderco. I really hope your design get to market soon, it really represents huge creative leap forward...Take care...Ed

User avatar
Blerv
Member
Posts: 11695
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 am

Postby Blerv » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:26 am

Great insight Mike. Thank you much.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

phaust
Member
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:20 pm

Postby phaust » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:28 am

Michael Janich wrote:
[snip]

How cool is that?

To be very honest, I have never been a "steel geek." Although I certainly acknowledged the differences in performance of various steels, I have always focused more on edge geometry than metallurgy--particularly in production knives. What DID always fascinate me, however, were processes like clay tempering that allowed hand-crafted blades to do things that production knives couldn't. The more I learn about H1, the more jazzed I am about it. I will continue to share my knowledge and experiences with it as we go.

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike
That is very cool. It seems much in line with the Spyderco's adopted philosophy of K.I.S.S. Differential treatment adds more time to manufacturing, while H1's work-hardening means the same thing done without adding anything to manufacturing (i.e., it's done while shaping/grinding/etc. the blade that all knives have done to them). It's just like the spyderhole; something is removed, yet the same functionality is kept.

Since it's soft, I'd be curious to see any tests anyone has done on H1 in terms of bending the knife. I seem to recall reading a post here talking about a test Spyderco had done, but for the life of me I can't find it or the original.

User avatar
D1omedes
Member
Posts: 1256
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Houston, Texas, USA

Postby D1omedes » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:19 pm

Thanks for sharing all of that information Michael. I'm far from a knife expert/steel geek but I found that post to be very enlightening. I must say that I'm very impressed with my Salt 1. No rust whatsoever and very easy to sharpen.

I look forward to more H1 knives from Spyderco.

User avatar
skatenut
Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Germany

Postby skatenut » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:58 pm

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, I love this forum! :D


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bloke, CanaBrit, crow2071, Demon85z, eRoc, Germinalphrase, Google [Bot], jacala, Jazz, legOFwhat?, tonijedi and 59 guests