Steeltoez83 testing log

[Steeltoez83]

To kick off this thread, I'm going to use 10V from the rivers edge run on the pm2. I tested the more recent Para 3 and it matched the pm2 in terms of wear resistance. The 10V runs have been compared to the bento box k390 runs by many ppl including myself. I don't count the social media influencers who chop down imaginary forests as having credibility to voice an opinion In terms of sharpening, I always use a 1k super vitrified diamond stone for testing. I did post my testing methods in the mule section and the reasoning behind it. When I tested this 10V, I got 370 cuts on my sanding roll til it hit test failure. After that test I cut a fresh apex and began part 2 of my testing the next day. I cut 148 tickets on my sanding roll. Then 74 chops on an ice block. That 60% measurement is baseline performance in terms of wear resistance and toughness for me atleast. If I was evaluating steels for harder usage, or even a possibility for serrations id adjust testing to better suit the situation. After that, I went back to cutting the sanding rolls. I ended up with 325 being the final number. The takeaway for my perspective is that this heat treat is well balanced or highly efficient. Depending on which side of the coin your allegiance lays with, your either a fan of the efficiency percentage. Or your not a fan because of what seki k390 is producing.

[Steeltoez83]

The next knife Id like to discuss is the gen 2 version of the polestar in carpenters bdl1n. My testing piece was bought as a factory second which shouldn’t influence testing results. I know spyderco uses this steel on some folders, even kitchen knives like the z cut. This particular steel comes in a serrated pattern in the z cut model, and that gives me an opportunity to address testing serrated knives. This is my thread to discuss my testing, my results, and my mindset.

I have my own mindset when it comes to testing serrated steels and that’s no good testing can come from it. I cant establish a final stop point in testing, or a consistent media to really acquire valid results. I take a more simplistic approach, and modify my testing slightly. I don’t work for spyderco so these are just my personal views on the subject matter. I feel the majority of serrated knife users encounter more challenging chores on a daily basis. For this particular discussion im referencing every day carry folders not kitchen cutlery. And if im using 20% for ice chops for standard knives, why not add more impacts to reflect a harder use environment. Instead of 40-20, Id switch it up to 35-25 or even 30-30. Goal is still the same to pass 60% in the 2nd round of testing. For posting here I will stick to 40-20 because that’s what I did.


With the bd1n polestar I achieved a cut testing number of 300 cuts. I put another fresh apex and began testing stopping at 40% which was 120 cuts on a sanding roll. And then proceeded to hit my ice block 60 times to reach 60% of the previous result. The knife did not pass the 60% check marker. Therefore I never resumed anymore cutting.

For arguments sake lets just say it did pass 60% and hit the 80-87% range. Preferably in the 35-25 style testing but we can always repeat the same test but with different percentages if we chose the 40-20. That 80-87% tells me the relationship between toughness and wear resistance is very strong. But theres a small problem, Im using a diamond stone and the tool of choice is often the sharpmaker triangle rods. The 1k vitrified diamond stone is not causing any burnishing effects on whatever steel im testing. Certain types of carbides will not be cut with the sharpmaker ceramic rods. Therefore I feel a 3rd test is appropriate in this situation to mimmick the patterns of most users. I personally freehand my serrations, but if the overwhelming majority use that system, testing should attempt to replicate similiarities. My solution is to use a 1k ceramic waterstone for test number 3 if it checks the right boxes from test number 2. I use a 1k pride abrasive water stone in this situation. Having a high efficiency percentage in both testing runs of 2 and 3 displays a great set of attributes suited in my opinion for serrations.

The bd1n polestar was never able to pass the 60% benchmark on test number 2. Dr Larrin put bd1n on the lower end of the spectrum in his toughness evaluations. My freehand edges hover around 12-13 dps so the edges are being challenged throughout testing. The z cuts maybe a different heat treat from the folders spyderco produces. So I can have an opinion but theres more holes in my perspective than swiss cheese. On a positive note 300 cuts is a fantastic number from test 1. Ive tested bd1n mostly from my custom knife from triple B. Ive noticed diamonds or cbn gives me the best edge from this steel. I can get great results from ceramic benchstones, but bd1n with diamond abrasives just seems to give me the longest cutting edges. Plus its noticeable in usage on every bd1n knife I own.

[Steeltoez83]

Next knife Is the maxamet manix. I've had Kurt hardness test not just this maxamet, but a few others of mine as well. If I recall it averaged around 68 hrc if I remember right. My rex76 mules hit 69.3 hrc which is still the highest record for spyderco hardness that I know about.

This knife was one of the test blades I used for rust testing. I discussed that on the mule forum a short time ago. I put forth the scenario a blue collar worker had to endure an 8 hour shift being out in the rain. So I let this knife and others soak in a pool of rain water for 8 hours a day, 5 or 7 days a week. I didn't wipe the blades dry, I let them sit on my countertops until the next day where I'd repeat the cycle. I used 2 coats of chapstick before the 8 hour soak every morning. I found my chapstick recommendation did a fantastic job of resisting rust in that testing wave.

Maxamet has a low toughness score according to Dr Larrins charts. So I don't predict passing at 60% on test 2. I own both the 400 and 1k super vits from triple b. I prefer the 1k finish for the manix model and the 400 for the pm2 but that's personal preference. I normally nudge ppl towards k390 from seki slightly more than maxamet on most occasions. However both steels are enjoyable in their own right. I won't be able to do test number 2 until tomorrow morning.

[Steeltoez83]

What I prefer to do is to stack my tickets up in piles of 10. I find it's helpful in counting up a final tally when finished. It helps keep me accountable just in case life pulls me away from testing. On a 100 cut time trial I average 3.8 seconds per cut. Since I've cut tested maxamet before I didn't even bother checking the edge until I hit the 400 mark. I achieved the same results I got a year ago when I did this exact same test on this exact same knife.

[Bolster]

Enjoying this thread, thanks!!

[Giygas]

I've been following you for a while on YT. Really excited for this thread.

[Steeltoez83]

I've been following you for a while on YT. Really excited for this thread.

Thanks for watching and reading this thread. I did record a new video about what i saw with s60v from triple b. However he is educating everyone in his own way about what that steel is bringing to the table. I can say his s60v did outcut maxamet in my strictly sanding roll cut testing.

[Steeltoez83]

40% of 520 is 208. 20% of 520 is 104. So I started the day with 208 cuts on my 100 grit sanding roll. Then proceeded with 104 chops on my ice. And just like I predicted the knife wasn't able to pass that 60% check marker. Most users wouldn't neglect maxamet after this much use. Id say 80% would take it to a diamond loaded strop but I can't prove that. The edge wore evenly across the entire length of the apex. I find that all my custom heat treated steels share that same pattern. I think maxamet is fine for most users who encounter mild to medium cutting challenges frequently. Sticking to cbn or diamond stones and strops is paramount. Just like seki k390, maxamet is readily available on several models and I don't need a black belt in telephone taekwondo to get it. I have done side by side testing with seki k390, triple b 15V, and maxamet to analyze blunting patterns in the past. I prefer 15V of the 3 personally but that's just me. Maxamet is still a great steel.

[Steeltoez83]

The other day i was playing around with my bess tester scale. I have moved away from bess testing but i still have the scale. Now i think its important to keep readings inside a centimeter of the edge preferably smaller. And i believe the scale should be evaluated first.

When testing for rockwell hardness of knives, the indenter is used on a testing block first. This allows the operator to know if the equipment is functioning properly hitting a specific measurement repeatedly. I think its essential to test a bess testing scale the same way.

I use flowing water instead of a test block. Bess testing is gradual force which is different from the same repeated force. I feel flowing water best replicates what the human hand is actually doing in bess testing. And if you use the same water and repeat the same test 10 or 12 times, the scale should read the same number. However, i think its an even better practice to vary the rate at which water flows on to the scale. The goal should be to push the range further and further apart within the constraints of the same amount of water reused for testing. Here we dont have a heavy cost so we can obviously do as many tests as we want. I usually stay in the 160-250 gram range.

For discussion purposes lets say the range is 20 grams. My last yt video i recorded a range of 40 grams but i have the cheaper scale that moves in 5 g increments. Take that 20 gram range divide by 2 and we have 10 grams that can be higher or lower than the actual result. Ive never seen anyone on camera take the 2 minutes to showcase the accuracy of the scale before testing a knife edge.

[Steeltoez83]

Currently testing the s35vn from the tenacious family. So far spydercos ht of s35vn is the best I've seen. Doubling the numbers against another well respected brand. In pure edge retention I got to 295 cuts this time.

Bcuz they have serrated offerings in this steel I will have to dig out my 1k waterstone for the next test at the 35-25 percentage protocol.

[Steeltoez83]

I got to wait til the morning for the alotted 24 hours for my ice block. According to Dr Larrins chart rankings s35vn is a 4. Bd1n was listed at 3.5 and did not pass the 60% mark at the 40-20 rate. If I'm not mistaken some if not all of the s35vn serrations from the tenacious line have been discontinued. In this scenario I'm using a 1k ceramic waterstone, and utilizing a 35-25 ratio instead. Vg10 also shares a ranking of 4 so it should be interesting to see if vg10 does better than s35vn in future testing. Before we had access to these charts I firmly believed xhp was a contender for the spyder edge treatment over s30v.

[Steeltoez83]

I have to correct myself bcuz I mentioned toughness for s35vn at a ranking of 4 but it's actually a 5.

The test edge was put on by a pride abrasive 1k stone. In order for me to replicate a sharpmaker user maintaining serrations I use ceramics over diamond. I adjust percentages to reflect a higher standard as well. Instead of 40% we use 35% and with 295 slices with a diamond edge 103 cuts were made. 25% ice chops was 73.75 which I rounded to 74. 20% would have been 59 chops, but I'm using 25% to replicate harder use.

This s35vn was able to continue past the 60% check mark. 60% is 177 out of 295. The tenacious was able to keep moving til it 220 and it was very borderline. I'm calling it at 225 which makes a 76% efficiency rating. Me personally would like steels chosen for serrations hit slightly higher at 80% but 76% is still a great score.

[Steeltoez83]

The knife is the corto from kizer I bought years ago. At the time kizer was pumping out s35vn at affordable prices. I haven't been in tune with kizer the last several years but they are still using s35vn as far as I know. There is a possibility they have improved their heat treat but I'm not at liberty to say so.

The knife itself reminds me of a gents folder/utility knife. Kinda in the same league as the sage series id say. I haven't tested how credible the frame lock is either. But I have tested this knife before I went to bladeshow last year. It was awkward at the kizer booth.

This s35vn hit a score of 160 again which is about half the life of what I just tested on the tenacious. For roughly the same price, getting double the edge retention is why I keep buying spydercos. At this time I haven't tested any s35vn that comes even remotely close.

[Steeltoez83]

The next 3 knives is sort of a 3 way competition with s30v. I have tested all these knives in the past. The sage 5 is one of my more recent acquisitions of s30v from spyderco. And it's cutting edge is at the very bottom size range for the 1.5 inch rolls. I prefer both the sage 3 for its wider handle profile in cutting. And the g10 maxamet sage 1 has become a favorite over time as well. The auto buck 110 is my favorite buck knife period. Those g10 inlays just connect with me on this design. If I recall the story correctly, Sal could 1 hand open his buck 110 and that later developed into the spydie hole. And we have a benchmade griptilian in s30v.

[Steeltoez83]

The Cinco sage received a score of 290 today. The highest score I have ever given to s30v was 315.

[Steeltoez83]

This is the 1k super vit diamond stone I normally use for testing. I was fortunate enough to pick one up when they dropped. This stone has probably sharpened well over 300 knives at this point. I still have no idea how Murray Carter is able to keep a tally of how many knives he has sharpened.

I tested my benchmade griptilian in s30v today. I achieved a score of 250 in strictly cutting the sanding roll.

[Steeltoez83]

That rectangle is the set range I use for the 1.5 inch rolls. Testing the buck 110 and the Cinco sage appear to be at the extreme ends of the spectrum. Now the spyderco version of s30v tested 290 on this sage. This buck was able to squeak its way to a score of 315 again. I have tested alot of s30v from spyderco and it has been consistent. Only 1 sample from buck has gone thru my testing. It's possible I picked up a unicorn from buck.

[Steeltoez83]

No testing today, but here's a few slides on what I do to flatten and condition my waterstones. I use a silicon carbide puck meant for axes. In this particular case it's a 1k waterstone that requires soaking before use. I prefer that over splash and go style stones bcuz it let's me control the binder release with time. This spackle box is a perfect fit for this operation. I prefer to do the bulk of the grinding while the stone is submerged in water. That way the mess is contained. The 240 grit silicon carbide is harder than the alumina and coarse enough to condition this 1k stone. My 400 waterstone gets the coarse side aka 130-150 grit when the time comes.

Eventually you will want to remove the stone from the slurry for the final touches and evaluation. As the stone starts drying, a flat stone will start having a suction/vacuum effect on the puck. The easiest way is to test this is to raise the puck side on the stone and see if it sticks to the stone instead of sliding out. I do this on both sides of the stone. I hope that my pictures showcases the puck sticking to the stone well enough instead of just sliding off. Then just dump the slurry water and let the stone air dry.

[Steeltoez83]

I forgot I had this sage rockwell tested. The average number for the pokes was 60.2. Therefore with the other s30v knives we can estimate based on the testing results what their hardness values are. Atleast to a closer degree. Id personally prefer s45vn on the sage series, but the history of s30v is rather fascinating to me atleast. It united the knife community with a common goal.

The original cut numbers were 290. So for today's shenanigans 116 cuts were made on the sanding roll. 58 chops on the ice block. And the Cinco sage was able to get 36 more cuts on the sanding roll to reach test failure. About a 72% efficiency compared to its pure cut test numbers.

[Steeltoez83]

I tested my buck and my griptilian today. The blunting pattern of the griptilian mirrored the same pattern from the sage. The data numbers are different, however I'm able to identify a trend between the 2. The sage s30v did out cut benchmades s30v. 40% of 250 is 100, and 20% of 250 is 50. My griptilian got 35 more cuts before it failed. This, the sage, and the s60v I tested all hover around this area from my testing.

The buck on the other hand dominated this test pulling a 280 score out of a possible 315. I find similar trends on custom heat treated steel when observing the blunting process. I would still buy s30v if the model interested me from the blue or the red brand.