Native Scout?

[ugaarguy]

A few minutes with a file will solve this.

Doesn't solve shortening the handle.

Threaded inserts are not more secure than threaded holes in steel liners. Any real force against those threads will bend the clip.

Every Spyderco I own or have owned with clip screws that mount to the liners is not as secure as thread inserts. On every one the clip slides side to side on the handle under lateral pressure. That's a 4x Byrds, 2x PM2s, and a previous gen G10 Native 5 with steel liners, off the top of my head.

Have you considered a Manix 2 backlock? I'm sure you can find a used one. Seems like what you want (they were linerless). IMO the Manix 2 is at least a Native cousin.

I may have to look for one.



I'd rather see the return of rounded ergonomic handles to the Native family. Spyderco rarely misses on ergos and I know I'm in the minority, but I've been a Native diehard since they've been making Natives up until the Native 5 LW and just don't find it to be a good knife in hand.

That's a fair criticism. I like the AWT scales that my Native 5 Salt Magnacut is riding in, along with the factory contoured and fluted scales of the Native 5 CF S90V. I just wonder what contouring G10 would add to the cost.

Personally, I don't want a middle ground knife. I like ~2.5" blades for general EDC. I like 4" blades for situations where I'm less worried about size/weight/optics and more about how the knife will perform in hand.

For me, the handle length needed for a 4" blade folder starts pushing my comfort level. 3.5" blade is about my max. Over that I'll go to a fixed blade. 2.5" blades, even with finger choil start to get cramped, but I'll still probably buy a Lil' Native LW.

[ugaarguy]

Next to the Native 5, the Manix 2 is my favorite platform, though I wish it was less of a pocket hog. So yeah, I'd be in for a 3.5 inch Native.
native5_manix2_nativechief_01.jpg

Honestly when I look at that picture I wonder why people don't just buy a Native Chief and grind the blade down a bit if they want a shorter version.

The size difference between the two isn't really that big. Take a Chief to a belt sander and drop 1/4 to 1/2 an inch and there you go.

Doesn't solve shortening the handle. The 3.5 blade and proportionally shorter handle is what I'm looking for. In folding knives half inch increments in blade length are significant.

[zhyla]

In folding knives half inch increments in blade length are significant.

Some legal jurisdictions think so, but IME handle size matters a lot more. I can’t think of any task I use a 4” folder for that a 2.5” folder won’t do.

For me it goes Chaparral, Manix 2 or Police, then machete.

[JoviAl]

Pass for me. I'd love to see an XXL version around 4.5" though! There's so little options in the over 4" blade length category.

This for me as well

I’d love a handle forward choil-less one too.

*edited for grammar.

[wrdwrght]

No interest here.

[ugaarguy]

In folding knives half inch increments in blade length are significant.

Some legal jurisdictions think so, but IME handle size matters a lot more. I can’t think of any task I use a 4” folder for that a 2.5” folder won’t do.

For me it goes Chaparral, Manix 2 or Police, then machete.

So, 2.8" blade folder, 3.38" blade folder, and 4.4" blade folder? But you also say there's no need for anything between a 2.5" blade folder and a Machete. Which is it? And you advocate for the 3.4" blade Manix 2, but you want to argue a against that middle size in a Native? Your arguments are inconsistent.

[James Y]

I wouldn't mind a Native Scout. But I would prefer the handle to be more like the Native Chief's than the Native 5's. The Native Chief is far more comfortable and natural in my medium-sized hand than the Native 5.

Jim

[cycleguy]

Background: I own five Native 5's. I recently picked up a brown G10 / M390 Native Chief because I was wanting something a bit longer. The Chief is great, but it's a bit too long, and by not adding height to scales and blade the proportions are thrown off. I strongly prefer the bias toward closure of a back lock, and I strongly prefer the more secure clip mounting of thread inserts that liner-less handles provide. I think the Native family needs a roughly 3.5" blade just right, in the middle, size.

So, I'd love it if Spyderco made what would be essentially a liner-less, back lock, G10 slab scaled Shaman. I'm probably in the minority, but would anyone else be interested in something like this?

I always like when this topic comes up again, since I´d also like to see that Native sized between "5" and Chief.

Has been discussed a lot in the thread Robin already linked above, I may post Kobolds "mock up" pic of that "in between" model here since imo it looks really cool.


("quoted" from here viewtopic.php?p=1546863#p1546863)

I also prefer a backlock over a comp.lock - not only cause of the closing bias, but also the for me better ergos (no comp.lock cutout) and more secure operation in not ideal conditions.

I think though a "liner-less, back lock, G10 slab scaled Shaman" would not really be that in between Native - especially the thinner blade and less tall built differentiates the Native from the Shaman for me.

Anyway :The Native with its great backlock and distinct features should absolutely get a model in the very popular Manix / PM2 / Stretch size if you ask me.

I like it too … was ‘Lil Chief’ ever discussed for name of the between version?

CG

[zhyla]

So, 2.8" blade folder, 3.38" blade folder, and 4.4" blade folder? But you also say there's no need for anything between a 2.5" blade folder and a Machete. Which is it? And you advocate for the 3.4" blade Manix 2, but you want to argue a against that middle size in a Native? Your arguments are inconsistent.

Those knives differ significantly in handle and blade geometry.

And btw I said Manix 2 OR Police. That is because the Manix 2 is a great handle-anything knife but carries like a brick. I carry the Police when I just need some length and a lot of serrations. The Stretch SE also works there. I have a lot of Spydies to choose from.

[Wartstein]

Honestly when I look at that picture I wonder why people don't just buy a Native Chief and grind the blade down a bit if they want a shorter version.
...

Doesn't solve shortening the handle. The 3.5 blade and proportionally shorter handle is what I'm looking for. In folding knives half inch increments in blade length are significant.

Taking a Chief and (just) shortening the blade would be not at all what I´d want in a Native-between-"5"-and-Chief too... it would actually just create a "ruined Chief" to me.

I almost always want the longest blade and edge possible in a given handle - but I also want compact, shorter in carry handles sometimes.

So to me the whole point of an "in between Native" / "Native Scout" or whatever actually IS:

1.) A compact, comparably short handle (shorter than on the Chief, but not as short as on the Native 5 and at least so long that a good four finger grip behind the choil still is possible).
2.) THEN give that handle as much blade and edge as possible.

... best examples for that concept and knives in roughly the size discussed here:
Stretch 1 (so not the current "2") or Caly 3.5.

[mikey177]

Following vivi's line of reasoning, Spyderco should not have developed the Endela, but instead suggested to people to grind down the Endura.

I for one am glad that the Endela exists. I still have one solitary Endura from the 1990s. I never bought another as I found it too long. But now I have a bunch of Endelas. I don't have to deal with an extra inch of handle sticking out when I use the Endela, and it carries better in the pocket for me.

[Wartstein]

Following vivi's line of reasoning, Spyderco should not have developed the Endela, but instead suggested to people to grind down the Endura.
...

Yes, while I personally prefer Endura sized knives for general EDC, I am totally with you on that.
(And sometimes I do want a shorter, more convenient carry that still has blade and edge as long as possible. There is a reason why I like Stretch 1 and Chaparral that much)

With that "grinding the blade down" approach there would have never been a PM2 for example (not exactly an unpopular model... ), but just the big Millie handle with variants in bladelengthes: A Millie length, PM2 length or even a Para 3 length blade...

[vivi]

Following vivi's line of reasoning, Spyderco should not have developed the Endela, but instead suggested to people to grind down the Endura.

I for one am glad that the Endela exists. I still have one solitary Endura from the 1990s. I never bought another as I found it too long. But now I have a bunch of Endelas. I don't have to deal with an extra inch of handle sticking out when I use the Endela, and it carries better in the pocket for me.

That's not following my reasoning at all, lol.

I made a suggestion to an end line user. Not to Spyderco.

I see a lot of requests here for making X model smaller, a slipjoint etc.

I suggested, to an individual that wants a smaller blade on a native chief, that they can have that knife today if they want.

Maybe Spyderco will make a Lil Chief. Maybe they won't. I asked for a compression lock Military back when the Para 2 launched. They did make it. But it took 15 years or so.

So, my suggestion was you can have a Chief with a short blade right now. Or, maybe in 2-5-10-25 years, there will be a production version.

[Mushroom]

I would still question if there is room in the catalog for a fourth size of Native iteration at the moment? How about a fifth size? …sixth?

Why stop there? A fourth and fifth size iteration could probably be added to the Military series, Delica series, and Yojimbo series and they would fit right in. Could probably fit a few more sizes in the Manix series too, just to be safe. (Of course Salt versions as well)

I really do hope their factory expansion opens up the production capacity to the point where they can fulfill all of our wishes but until then, I still do not believe their catalog is immune to redundancy.

[vivi]

as long as we get some XXL models :)

[ugaarguy]

I would still question if there is room in the catalog for a fourth size of Native iteration at the moment? How about a fifth size? …sixth?

Why stop there? A fourth and fifth size iteration could probably be added to the Military series, Delica series, and Yojimbo series and they would fit right in. Could probably fit a few more sizes in the Manix series too, just to be safe. (Of course Salt versions as well)

I really do hope their factory expansion opens up the production capacity to the point where they can fulfill all of our wishes but until then, I still do not believe their catalog is immune to redundancy.

I get that a 3.5" blade Native isn't for you, but there's no need for the hyperbole. Roughly 3.5" blade knives are very popular. It's a glaring hole in the Native lineup. Look at the PM2, Endela, Manix. There's no liner-less, no blade spine hump, 3.5" back lock in the lineup. The Shaman with it's comp lock was redundant when the PM2 already existed.

[ugaarguy]

Following vivi's line of reasoning, Spyderco should not have developed the Endela, but instead suggested to people to grind down the Endura.

I for one am glad that the Endela exists. I still have one solitary Endura from the 1990s. I never bought another as I found it too long. But now I have a bunch of Endelas. I don't have to deal with an extra inch of handle sticking out when I use the Endela, and it carries better in the pocket for me.

That's not following my reasoning at all, lol.

I made a suggestion to an end line user. Not to Spyderco.

I see a lot of requests here for making X model smaller, a slipjoint etc.

I suggested, to an individual that wants a smaller blade on a native chief, that they can have that knife today if they want.

Maybe Spyderco will make a Lil Chief. Maybe they won't. I asked for a compression lock Military back when the Para 2 launched. They did make it. But it took 15 years or so.

So, my suggestion was you can have a Chief with a short blade right now. Or, maybe in 2-5-10-25 years, there will be a production version.

You know darn well that I was asking for a 3.5" blade Native with a proportionally shorter handle. Quit being obtuse.

[Mushroom]

I would still question if there is room in the catalog for a fourth size of Native iteration at the moment? How about a fifth size? …sixth?

Why stop there? A fourth and fifth size iteration could probably be added to the Military series, Delica series, and Yojimbo series and they would fit right in. Could probably fit a few more sizes in the Manix series too, just to be safe. (Of course Salt versions as well)

I really do hope their factory expansion opens up the production capacity to the point where they can fulfill all of our wishes but until then, I still do not believe their catalog is immune to redundancy.

I get that a 3.5" blade Native isn't for you, but there's no need for the hyperbole. Roughly 3.5" blade knives are very popular. It's a glaring hole in the Native lineup. Look at the PM2, Endela, Manix. There's no liner-less, no blade spine hump, 3.5" back lock in the lineup. The Shaman with it's comp lock was redundant when the PM2 already existed.

I didn’t say a 3.5” Native wasn’t for me and it wasn’t hyperbole, I meant it - where is the limit? People have already been asking for a larger Native Chief as well. 4.5” Native Chiefs are also a glaring hole in their lineup, so why shouldn’t they make it? Either way, I would question if their catalog could support that addition too…

After the Native series sets the precedent, we will see more requests for half inch variants of every other popular knife series because of supposed “glaring holes” in their lineup.

It’s a glaring hole in your opinion, not Spyderco’s. The Shaman is redundant in your opinion, not Spyderco’s. All we have to do to prove my point about redundancy is take a look at all the wharncliffes on last years discontinued list.

[Humint]

Next to the Native 5, the Manix 2 is my favorite platform, though I wish it was less of a pocket hog. So yeah, I'd be in for a 3.5 inch Native.
native5_manix2_nativechief_01.jpg

I had just commented in another thread that I wish Spyderco made a backlock Manix in a Salt version with a thinner blade. Why? Because it is in a size between the Native 5 and the Native Chief. The Native Scout concept however is actually what I would prefer as it is less of a pocket hog and the ergos are almost perfect. I recently got rid of all of my knife collection and only kept two (2) knives. A Large Inkosi (PDW edition) in Magnacut and a Spyderco Native 5 LW Salt. While I wanted to keep just the Large Inkosi, there is something about the Native 5 Salt that is sheer awesome. It is nearly the perfect knife; had the handle just been a little bit longer (offering a 4 finger grip without having to use the choil) and the cutting edge just a little big longer, I would not have kept the Inkosi and made the Native 5 Salt truly my one-and-done knife.

While I have owned hundreds and hundreds of knives over the years, collecting and using them was a fun quest. However, the one thing I always longed for was the quest to see how one pocket knife would hold up for life. In pursuing that, I decided to pair down my entire collection to one knife and one knife only for all tasks in life to see how it would hold up. I decided on the Large Inkosi only for the fact that the Native 5 LW Salt was just a little too short to handle and the cutting edge just a little too short for food prep. The Native Chief Salt is just too big for my needs but handles food prep fine. While I have sold all of my knives with the exception of the Inkosi and Native 5 Salt, it is the Inkosi that gets the everyday carry with the Native 5 Salt only riding as a backup should anything ever happen to the Inkosi and it has to go to the mothership under warranty.

If Sal made a Native 5 Scout today in a Salt version, the Inkosi and Native 5 LW Salt would be given away in a second and the Native 5 Scout Salt would be truly my one-and-done forever knife

[ugaarguy]

All we have to do to prove my point about redundancy is take a look at all the wharncliffes on last years discontinued list.

You're conflating blade shape with blade and overall length. The wharnies were discontinued across all sizes of the Seki back locks. The Endela, the half-inch increment of the Seki lineup, remains in the catalog.