Upping the price.

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
toomanyquestions
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Re: Upping the price.

#41

Post by toomanyquestions »

Naperville wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 am
I have quite a bit of an education,...my biggest achievement was in the College of Business where I obtained a Management Information Systems degree. Instead I remember the concepts that underpin hundreds of pages of text. One thing is for sure. If Spyderco manufactured below their cost to make knives, they would go out of business. Capitalism is self correcting. If you want to stay in business, you simply cannot sell any product at too high a margin or too low a margin.
I wanted to add a few quick thoughts.

Let me begin by saying Spyderco prices do feel a bit high (e.g. $168~ for VG 10 Enuff 2). However, each company is rightfully entitled to set a price that seems fair - and we have an equal right to make buying decisions based on the prices and quality we observe (the Enuff 2 was bumped down my priority list and replaced by a fairly large Spyderco folder).

A competitive marketplace is driven by the interplay between business costs and the price, quality, and customer support for the products being offered. This complex relationship is precisely what makes a free market economy so great for consumers. In a free society consumers ultimately influence prices (via supply and demand) and reward particular companies with their business at the expense of other companies. At the present moment the American marketplace is flooded with Chinese folders; some of these pocket knives are of dubious quality, while others seem quite good. This is the essence of marketplace competition - but competition from companies who do not have the high overhead costs Spyderco faces in the US, Japan, and Taiwan.

Inflation is real, and some of it has been created by individuals who have nice intentions. From 2010-2024 the CO minimum wage almost doubled from $7.24 (https://cdle.colorado.gov/sites/cdle/fi ... heet_0.pdf) an hour to to $14.42 an hour (https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/state). And while this base wage growth has positive side effects, it also brings about an increase in the cost of labor for companies who employ workers in Colorado. As a result, I suspect Spyderco's wage scale has likewise moved upward: they surely want to hire good workers with a history of being reliable and responsible -- not the typical 18 year old slacker who just wants a job to pay for car insurance, fuel, and fast food. Many of the US based suppliers and subcontractors Spderco works with could conceivably face a similar growth in labor costs.

One of the conclusions I have reached is that subtle quality can be really important. For example, if Spyderco heat treats a basic lock-back correctly, it will offer years of good service. If another company skimps on the heat treat or lowers their quality control standards to save money, the lower price knife might develop excessive lock-wobble after only a few years (due to metal-on-metal wear at the lock interface). I personally value the fact that Spyderco will try to manufacture quality products, and then if they make a mistake customer service will rectify the matter.

My personal conclusion is this: I will continue to buy and value Spyderco products, but my purchases will be thoughtful and planned to fit within wise budgetary constraints. If this means I go a few years between pocket knives, so be it. I plan to live well and enjoy the little pocket luxury goods I own. ;)
Last edited by toomanyquestions on Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
vivi
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Re: Upping the price.

#42

Post by vivi »

The pricing has definitely made me slow down.

When I got into Spydercos you could get....

$40 S30V Native 1's
$45 Delicas and $50 Enduras
$100-110 for a Military S60V or S30V
$115-125 for gen 3 Police
$25 Pretty sure this was the launch price of the Tenacious
$95 launch price of the G10 Manix 2, Yojimbo 2 and Para 2
$18-25 Cara Caras in G10

That was everyday street prices.

$200 has been my limit on knives for a while. Whether a 10" super blue gyuto, Scrapyard Chopper, K390 Police folder, etc., $200 has been my limit.

We're at the point where base model offerings are past that. Military 2, Manix XL, etc. Regular every day street price of a Manix XL DLC is $237.

That's too much in my opinion.

Spyderco will always have a place in my collection, but going forward I'm being much, much more selective with what I buy.

I got hard into Cold Steel late last year / this year, and the prices are amazing in comparison. Some of my purchases over the last half year, all brand new from trusted retailers:

$35 Voyager XL
$56 Voyager L
$55 Frenzy
$78 Recon 1
$25 SRKC
$80 SRK 3V


When I can get a Recon 1 4" blade folder with G10, S35VN and an improved lockback for about $75 VS over twice that for an FRN & BD1 Chief, it's a no brainer for me.

I can't imagine Spyderco putting out something like the 3V SRK for under $250. I can't imagine them putting out something like the S35VN Frenzy for under $300.

I like supporting this company but it gets tougher each year. Last year was the first time in nearly a decade I bought a single blade folding knife that wasn't a Spyderco, but it's also all I've been buying since.
:unicorn
zhyla
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Re: Upping the price.

#43

Post by zhyla »

vivi wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:44 pm
I like supporting this company but it gets tougher each year. Last year was the first time in nearly a decade I bought a single blade folding knife that wasn't a Spyderco, but it's also all I've been buying since.
I hear you. One thing Spyderco has a bit of a monopoly on is serrated blades. I guess Cold Steel has some. But that’s one thing that keeps me eyeballing the Spydies.

This convo has pushed me over the edge. I think I’m going to buy a Miguron today.
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RustyIron
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Re: Upping the price.

#44

Post by RustyIron »

Only minutes ago I was over at the mountain bike forum. A couple guys over there are complaining about the high prices. Think about how bad it must be for people who play with both knives AND mountain bikes!
cycleguy
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Re: Upping the price.

#45

Post by cycleguy »

If it was just Spyderco prices that increased I could handle it fine.

However, after paying taxes, insurances, utilities, groceries, and transportation …

Feels like I won’t be getting any Spyderco ... or anything material that isn’t truly necessary. :sad-but-relieved


CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!
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RamZar
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Re: Upping the price.

#46

Post by RamZar »

The Japanese Yen has lost a lot of value against the U.S. Dollar the past couple of years. Currently, it's 1 USD = 150.227 JPY. In February 2022 it was 1 USD = 115.026 JPY. Yet, the street prices of Japanese models are still too high. A regular Endura4 with Satin VG-10 Blade and FRN scales is now $102.38 and in October 2006 it was $43.00:

  1. Spyderco Endura4 VG-10 SpyderEdge Black FRN C10SBK: $43.00 now $102.38
  2. Spyderco Endura4 Trainer AUS-6 Red FRN C10TR: $42.95 now $102.38
  3. Spyderco Endura4 VG-10 SpyderEdge Stainless C10S: $53.00 now $124.50
The CPI Inflation Calculator says $43.00 in October 2006 should now be $65.72 but it's priced at $102.38.
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cycleguy
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Re: Upping the price.

#47

Post by cycleguy »

That calculator is BROKEN!!! Toss it …. :zany

When I check my records from 2006 and compare to today … 2x is a solid factor.

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!
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anycal
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Re: Upping the price.

#48

Post by anycal »

RustyIron wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:20 pm
Only minutes ago I was over at the mountain bike forum. A couple guys over there are complaining about the high prices. Think about how bad it must be for people who play with both knives AND mountain bikes!

Ouch! That hit little too close to home.
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standy99
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Re: Upping the price.

#49

Post by standy99 »

RustyIron wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:20 pm
Only minutes ago I was over at the mountain bike forum. A couple guys over there are complaining about the high prices. Think about how bad it must be for people who play with both knives AND mountain bikes!
This is tame compared to the watch Forums.

A $4000 luxury watch in 2014 from a boutique is now $11000 for the same watch at the same boutique.(a couple of CQIs but nothing outlandish) Basically a $6-800 price increase every year. :winking-tongue

Same threads as here every year on increase.
Last edited by standy99 on Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zhyla
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Re: Upping the price.

#50

Post by zhyla »

Did a little deep dive at Metal Complex over on YouTube. He has a nice list of budget knife reviews. Eye opening what all is out there in the $30-$75 range.

He reviewed the Astute and Efficient a while back. High praise on the design (obviously) but he has a problem with the 8Cr13MoV steel. It seems no quality budget knife makers are still using this. I wonder why Spyderco does?

I’m making a list of budget knives I’m interested in. The Astute actually really flips my switch. It’s on the list. Historically I’ve not minded 8Cr but it’s pretty weird to be paying so much more for a Spydie logo and getting a bit less than other brands. But design trumps steel always.
zhyla
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Re: Upping the price.

#51

Post by zhyla »

RamZar wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:33 pm
The CPI Inflation Calculator says $43.00 in October 2006 should now be $65.72 but it's priced at $102.38.
Meanwhile the knife industry radically changed. Knives are CNC manufactured which drove costs way down. And Chinese factories perfected their production methods so that what was a $300 knife is now a $100 knife.
chronovore
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Re: Upping the price.

#52

Post by chronovore »

I love Spyderco but this issue is especially evident with their models in 8Cr13Mov and VG-10. Especially on the former, they really seem stuck in the past and now the same Chinese manufacturers working down the street or on the next assembly line over are offering much better materials at much better prices with as good or better fit, finish, action, etc..

This recently came up when I just couldn't justify buying an Enuff 2. I liked the overall design but $160 for VG-10 and FRN in the current market seemed nuts. Now it's $180?!?

To put things into context, my last two new-production fixed-blade purchases were in Nitro-V and textured Micarta for $65, and S90V and G10 for $115; both with kydex or equivalent sheaths. Essentially, I got two knives in better materials for exactly the current price of one Enuff 2.
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Re: Upping the price.

#53

Post by CDEP »

Let's stipulate that each of us can make our own judgements of value based on our needs and preferences, so for me...

I have more than 20 Civivi, about the same number of CJRB, over a dozen Kizer, and 20 other budget knives from the upstarts like Miguron and Vosteed. A lot of fun little knives in there that I enjoy, and all with *better* steel than 8Cr.

But not a single one of them will out perform a Spyderco Tenacious in 8Cr13MoV *in real world cutting.* The geometry and ergos are superior and it isn't even close. Civivi is better than the others in geometry - usually - but even they don't make a superior cutting tool to the Spydie Value Folders - at any price.

I have favorites amongst all the aforementioned brands and have them in rotation for easy light duty. But if my main knife for the day is an Elementum, I always have a Spyderco in pocket as a backup in case I encounter a serious cutting task. The most useful thing about the Elementum is that it won't scare the punters around me if I have to deploy it.

I don't know what Spyderco magic is involved in their 8Cr (and their VG-10, BD1(N)), but for value as a cutting tool I will take my Tenacious, Polestar, Alcyone, and especially my Astute over any other budget brand. The Astute is actually in my top 10 fave Spyderco knives, and I have more than 10 that cost over $200.

If I'm comparing Civivi - CJRB - Kizer, etc. Then yes, I will weigh the steel choice more heavily. I just don't compare those brands to Spyderco - it's like comparing a Cuban cigar to anything else. It's just not fair.

And yes, I also have multiple Spyderco models in all the sexy steels and enjoy that end of the spectrum, too.

If you are just spreadsheeting the cost of materials you are missing the overall picture, and for me it is clear that Spyderco delivers the best value of any major production brand, and does so over the full spectrum from budget to premium.

I can't afford all the Spyderco models I'd like to own, but I find I'm well set with the ones within my budget.
Brian
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Re: Upping the price.

#54

Post by Cowboyfromhell »

I quit buying knives. I have 10k in about 60 knives half of which consists of spyderco. Hobbies aren't cheap. I plan on enjoying what I have. I collect dollar bills now.....
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Wartstein
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Re: Upping the price.

#55

Post by Wartstein »

CDEP wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:42 am
....

If you are just spreadsheeting the cost of materials you are missing the overall picture, and for me it is clear that Spyderco delivers the best value of any major production brand, and does so over the full spectrum from budget to premium.

...

This.

Imo it is not (only) about "putting together materials", but also about how evolved, ergonomic, useful... are the designs themselves... what kind of philosopohy, ethics, integrity and business approach one wants to support... is it worth a few bucks more that Spyderco as a whole and in the "overall picture" is willing to explore and provide us with amazing and exotic steel options.. and so on.

Sure I can´t actually proove that, but I figure that not many really assume Spyderco just uses "cheaper" materials and charges higher prices in order to make more money than other companies and "rip off" their customers - ?! I certainly am sure that this is NOT the case!
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
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Flash
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Re: Upping the price.

#56

Post by Flash »

As much as I love Spydercos K390, I find spending £354 (that’s $446!!) on an Enuff 2 to be quite an ask.

FRN scales, a fixed blade with a hole in it and a sheath with more rattles than a Mojave Green will only get you so much good grace from me Spyderco. 😆
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standy99
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Re: Upping the price.

#57

Post by standy99 »

Flash wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2024 6:09 am
As much as I love Spydercos K390, I find spending £354 (that’s $446!!) on an Enuff 2 to be quite an ask.

FRN scales, a fixed blade with a hole in it and a sheath with more rattles than a Mojave Green will only get you so much good grace from me Spyderco. 😆
A Enuff 2 is $240 US from Knifecenter
Currency conversion has $240US to be £190

£190 + 20% VAT tax is £228 if you bought from Knifecenter with say £20 shipping it’s £248

So from £190/£248 to £354 is not Spyderco’s doing…

As a Aussie who will buy from Knifecenter in US nearly all of my Spyderco folders and pay the shipping and conversion and save $$s compared to buying from a site or store in Australia… :winking-tongue
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Re: Upping the price.

#58

Post by Hopsbreath »

You guys seen the price of bourbon lately? :flushed
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Re: Upping the price.

#59

Post by yablanowitz »

vivi wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:44 pm
The pricing has definitely made me slow down.

When I got into Spydercos you could get....
When I got into Spyderco, a month's rent including utilities and insurance was averaging $400, and gasolne was about $1.79 per gallon. Now that total is over $1000, I no longer have a landline or home internet service and gas is around $2.89 a gallon.

Political discussion is frowned upon here, but I can't help thinking the federal government spending trillions of dollars that they don't have could have something to do with what we are seeing, and not just Spyderco's alleged greed.
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TkoK83Spy
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Re: Upping the price.

#60

Post by TkoK83Spy »

Could be a blessing in disguise. Chances are if you're on this forum, you've already got more than enough knives in your collection to keep you busy/happy as it is...you just don't know it yet. Based on the poll that was going around a couple weeks ago, the amount of people scooping up 15+ knives a year (excluding the Seconds sale knives, because those deals are too good to pass up!) I'm willing to bet most of the folks haven't given a majority of those knives even a full week of carry and use during this past year, probably even less went as far as giving these knives a new edge. The high prices should deter folks from this obsessive buying complex and get to know the knives they already have. You may already have your grail in your collection, you just don't know it yet because you're scooping up new knives left and right.

Just a thought.
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1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
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