Vote: Kick? Choil? Forward? Other?

[thuyenbuom]

The Finger Choil makes things safer and allows for a grip right up next to the blade as well...feels more stable in hand.

[riclaw]

Depends on the pattern. Spyderco never forgot that a folding knife can, well, fold. The choil provides that extra level of safety while still allowing the user to get right up next to the blade.

But this is what kick and "forward" provide too, don't they?

Hey, Wartstein. The kick and handle-forward designs can provide that extra measure of safety. Not all of them do, though. The Siren lured me in then bit me. I singled out the choil because I thought it just looked goofy. Now I appreciate its advantages.

► Show Spoiler

It still looks goofy.

[Doc Dan]

A choil is in the way. It is a snagging point when cutting through fibrous material. Far better to have no choil and a plain tang or handle forward.

[Bolster]

I am pleasantly surprised though how many votes "kick" still gets - normally it seems like the voices who find the kick just "a waste of space" and "a choil much better" "Delica/Endura would be improved if they also got a choil" are rather loud around here.

I dunno, W. That’s ^ a very positive spin, but currently 18% say kick and 82% say something else. I’m actually surprised to see the kick do so poorly, given that it’s featured on many of Spyderco’s classic knives. Thankfully Spyderco makes something for everyone!

…it's worth mentioning that when I'm opening a new reveal catalog, it's not more designs with a choil I'm hoping to see. I would really like for a new forward design to come along and sway me over.

Interesting you mention this. I also really like the handle-forward concept, but haven’t purchased one yet. I like the idea of a prominent guard to keep my finger safe, but I also like being able to get my index finger close to the heel of the blade. And I like the idea of getting full edge out of the length of the blade. I’m just waiting for an implementation of handle-forward to come along that speaks to me.

[navin johnson]

Kick cause 30 years of handling

Yet to find a time when a choil was useful yet found them in the way many times

Have a jumper and am trying handle forward

[Fastidiotus]

Choils are genius on a slip joint, it provides a layer of safety that's basically as good as a lock in my use. Choils are great on small lighter duty knives as well to make the knife carry even smaller when folded up but offer more grip than you'd otherwise have. That said almost every knife I've had with a choil I would rather have the extra blade length. I voted forward because a choil with jimping is never as comfortable as the handle for extended use periods for me. I love the Manix 2, I can accept that the choil needs to be there to accommodate everything when folded but what a knife it would be if it's cutting edge was proportional to it's handle length. Models like the Caribbean, Leaf/RockJumper, and Lil Temp just feel like more thoughtfully laid out designs in use. Variety is the zest of spice though so I'm glad spyderco gives us all the options that they do.

[Wartstein]

Kick cause 30 years of handling

...

Did you actually vote for kick? Not that you "have to" of course, it is just that the vote count for kick did not change since yesterday ("my" yesterday here in Europe )

[Wartstein]

I am pleasantly surprised though how many votes "kick" still gets - normally it seems like the voices who find the kick just "a waste of space" and "a choil much better" "Delica/Endura would be improved if they also got a choil" are rather loud around here.

I dunno, W. That’s ^ a very positive spin, but currently 18% say kick and 82% say something else. I’m actually surprised to see the kick do so poorly, given that it’s featured on many of Spyderco’s classic knives. Thankfully Spyderco makes something for everyone!

You are not wrong, Bolster...

When I typed my reply the situation actually was better for "kick" (a bit over 20%), since then it got no more votes while the other options did.

Still: About 1/5 for "kick" out of 4 options is not too bad, right?

Especially when one considers, that there always is a share of voters who just like to pariticipate (which is fine of course!) but have not really an out of a lot experience and unbiased opinion on the matter, but more or less vote what they THINK should be better ... or hear and read most of the times (and that tends to be "choil"... "if the Delica had a choil it would be better"... "kick is wasted space"...)

Out of the folks like you and me who really try and look deeper into the matter it seems to me a good share comes to appreciate the pros the "kick" offers...
- like one does not HAVE to choke up that often cause the hand IS already close to the edge with a kick (with still some safety distance)
- like "kick" does not eat up that much edge length and allows for a longer grip area behind the choil
- like one absolutely CAN still choke up on a "kick" - for some, like me, that works great and better than on most choils, but for almost anyone it should be at least doable.

Of course a good share who really "tries and thinks" will come to prefer "choil" or "forward", since there are definitely good reasons for that!

Again, for me it is "kick" just if I absolutely have to choose one option - forward is just slightly behind, and I like some Spydies with choils a lot!

[shunsui]

My preference is for finger guards.

[Wartstein]

Ok, "kick" is loosing ground continuously, intersting!

When I voted it was at 22% (I think), when I replied to Bolster this morning (in Europe) at 18, now down to 16 %.

Seems to be more in line with what I subjevtively would have guessed (though I personally voted for "kick")

[Bolster]

^ Time to get those fake accounts voting!!

(Just kidding! I know nobody on this thread would do that. But whenever I've run knife polls through SurveyMonkey there's always a few guys who think they can skew the results in their favor by voting a dozen times or more. They're easy to spot.)

[Wartstein]

^ Time to get those fake accounts voting!!

(Just kidding! I know nobody on this thread would do that. But whenever I've run knife polls through SurveyMonkey there's always a few guys who think they can skew the results in their favor by voting a dozen times or more. They're easy to spot.)

...but honestly:Do you think that this could be the case even in THAT poll?
Don't get me wrong, I do find it interesting, but it is not really a "hot" topic with strong opinions where people have a dog in the race that "must win"...

Like I personally really like all design choices discussed here and just slightly and if I absolutely have to decide lean towards "kick" for reasons already mentioned.

As long as Delica, Endela and Endura keep their "kick" I am a happy camper... and even that mostly cause there are already a lot of choil choices out there anyway, so it is a lot about variety.

[Bolster]

^ I doubt it, because voting twice in a Spyderco poll is more complicated than just clearing cookies and voting again. But, with online anything, you never know. The internet has brought us a million new ways to cheat!

[StuntZombie]

I voted handle forward, with kick being a close second. For me, I find most choils compromise grip comfort. Especially on the Native, where I can only get a comfortable grip by using the choil. The fewer curves and finger grooves on a handle, the better.

[Ngati Pom]

I voted Forward, as the majority of my recent purchases are handle forward models.They are an elegant solution to the Choil vs Kick decision.
That said, on smaller models Choil all the way, with a reduced handle area they provide a more secure grip for harder use.
Aren’t we lucky to be able to choose?

[JoviAl]

I’m firmly in the ‘handle forward’ camp for larger knives, although I don’t mind the others once in a while. The Caribbean converted me, then the Rockjumper was the final nail in the coffin for other designs.

For smaller knives I quite like a choil (D’fly, lil native, UKPK, etc).

To be honest I think my appreciation of handle forward designs (especially for work) is due to them feeling the most like a fixed blade to me - lots of blade on a modest handle is what I like.

[Wartstein]

I’m firmly in the ‘handle forward’ camp for larger knives, although I don’t mind the others once in a while. The Caribbean converted me, then the Rockjumper was the final nail in the coffin for other designs.
....
To be honest I think my appreciation of handle forward designs (especially for work) is due to them feeling the most like a fixed blade to me - lots of blade on a modest handle is what I like.

No offense, but so far it really depends on the locktype if a forward design offers "lots of blade on a modest handle"...

Carribean or Tenacious definitely do that, but the Rockjumper (Leafjumper) actually is a knife that relatively seen offers exactly the opposite: Lots of HANDLE with a very modest or even rather short blade and edge.

Numbers? Well, two comparisons

Rockjumper ("forward")
Handle length 113 mm, blade 78 mm = 69% of the handle length, edge 72 mm = 63% of the handle length

Stretch 1 (choil) :
Handle length also 113 mm, blade 89 mm = 79% of the handle length, edge 81 % of the handle length
(So in the same handle length the Stretch 1 packs a choil PLUS then more EDGE than the RJ has BLADE - but, yes, some of the grip area on the actual handle behind the choil is taken away by the handle part of just that choil)

Endura ("kick"):
Handle length 126 mm, blade 97 mm = 77% of the handle length, edge 87 mm = 69% of the handle length.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked my RJ and as a matter of fact just purchased a Leafjumper SE - great work knife, but honestly for when wants a long, generous HANDLE and a rather short, compact blade.

All I want to point out: So far with BACKlocks "forward" does not mean lots of blade for a given handle length.

[JoviAl]

I’m firmly in the ‘handle forward’ camp for larger knives, although I don’t mind the others once in a while. The Caribbean converted me, then the Rockjumper was the final nail in the coffin for other designs.
....
To be honest I think my appreciation of handle forward designs (especially for work) is due to them feeling the most like a fixed blade to me - lots of blade on a modest handle is what I like.

No offense, but so far it really depends on the locktype if a forward design offers "lots of blade on a modest handle"...

Carribean or Tenacious definitely do that, but the Rockjumper (Leafjumper) actually is a knife that relatively seen offers exactly the opposite: Lots of HANDLE with a very modest or even rather short blade and edge.

Numbers? Well, two comparisons

Rockjumper ("forward")
Handle length 113 mm, blade 78 mm = 69% of the handle length, edge 72 mm = 63% of the handle length

Stretch 1 (choil) :
Handle length also 113 mm, blade 89 mm = 79% of the handle length, edge 81 % of the handle length
(So in the same handle length the Stretch 1 packs a choil PLUS then more EDGE than the RJ has BLADE - but, yes, some of the grip area on the actual handle behind the choil is taken away by the handle part of just that choil)

Endura ("kick"):
Handle length 126 mm, blade 97 mm = 77% of the handle length, edge 87 mm = 69% of the handle length.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked my RJ and as a matter of fact just purchased a Leafjumper SE - great work knife, but honestly for when wants a long, generous HANDLE and a rather short, compact blade.

All I want to point out: So far with BACKlocks "forward" does not mean lots of blade for a given handle length.

Hi Gernot,

No offence taken buddy - I can’t argue with the facts!

I don’t think I’ve ever actually measured an RJ’s blade or handle, they just feel good to use. Maybe it’s because all of mine are SE - that always seems to make knives cut ‘bigger’ The Caribbean on the other hand is definitely a lot of sharpened edge for a modest handle. I’m sure there’s probably a mechanical reason for the sharpened length being a bit less on handle forward backlocks (a hidden kick for example), but the total package is just so excellent for my nefarious purposes that I seem to have overlooked the shorter blade to handle. I do much prefer having the blade start pretty much where my fingers end and having the handle come all the way to the blade feels good in hand when I’m really hacking at things. Feather sticks are the deal breaker for me as I make a lot of them and a handle forward design is usually very comfy to do them with.

[jwbnyc]

No particular preference. Depends entirely on the design. The exception is a blade forward design. It needs a bit of a kick to aid in closing to be its best self. Did not vote.

[Bolster]

I’m pondering the results at 76 votes and wondering if they represent a fairly stable result in terms of proportions. If so: 10 knife users walk by, 4 of them want handle foward (despite the fact that HF designs are still relatively rare in the Spyderco lineup), another 4 want a choil, 1-1/2 of them want a kick and 1/2 of a person thinks a different approach is preferable.

Those of you who are Spyderco historians: did Spyderco’s evolutions tend to evolve from kick to choil to handle foward? I’m not saying in every instance, I’m asking overall large trends. Were early Spydercos mostly kicks? Did Spyderco start designing more choils at some point? And are we seeing an evolution into handle foward designs now?

I don’t mean to bring down The Wrath of Wartstein for asking the question. This is not to imply that kicks are primitive or in any way substandard (though they don’t appear to be as popular) or that handle forward designs are superior (I don’t even own one yet—I don’t have a dog in that fight). It’s simply a question about how Spyderco designs are changing over time. Is there a trend here?