Are We Witnessing The Death Knell of K390 In Production Folders?

[standy99]

Wharncliffe - To me personally it is pretty much like the Tanto, ran it’s course of popularity (never was into the Tanto)

Have a few Wharncliffe knives and liked/bought them when more and more knives came out with them, probably wouldn’t even contemplate another knife in a wharncliffe blade.

[Manixguy@1994]

Glad Sal stopped by for a clarification. MG2

[Ramonade]

If clearance prices where a thing in Europe we both would be living in a cardboard box full of spydies under a bridge probably…

Ahahah, it is a possibility ! At least we'd find a lot of things to cut under that bridge . Even if Juggler might be right, the day we have nothing to cut we might cut down our own house

[shunsui]

I think a part of the issue with the with spyderco's wharncliffe knives is that they're ugly looking. I really like the utility of the wharncliffe blade, personally, but the really wide curved blade that sticks out of the handle when closed just doesn't look right to me. I think a reverse tanto style blade, like on the yojimbo, would have been accepted better by the market.
...

I agree on the looks. But I found an interesting mod. Bought one of these in VG-10:
https://www.knivesplus.com/spyderco-end ... inish.html

If anyone's interested, they could ask KnivesPlus if they could do the mod on these:
https://www.knivesplus.com/spyderco-end ... liffe.html

[Skywalker]

Wharncliffe - To me personally it is pretty much like the Tanto, ran it’s course of popularity (never was into the Tanto)

Have a few Wharncliffe knives and liked/bought them when more and more knives came out with them, probably wouldn’t even contemplate another knife in a wharncliffe blade.

This is interesting to me - are wharncliffes actually on the backside of their popularity peak?

I admit I don't always pay a ton of attention to industry trends as a whole but I still see lots of wharncliffe and sheepsfoot designs around. Things like the Benchmade Immunity, Hogue Deka wharncliffe and ZT 0762 that put a little bend before the straight edge to the tip, Kizer Sheepdog, or all the modern swaybacks like the MBK Slayback or Kizer Swaggs. CRK's Insingo seems more popular than ever judging from things like the EDC thread on BF - it does have a curved edge, but definitely still a sheepsfoot. Hinderer is still putting out wharncliffes.

Again, I'm usually pretty out of the loop, so maybe I'm off here. But these blade profiles seem to be normalized for everyday carry and use now much more so than ten or fifteen years ago.

Now for Spyderco specifically, yeah, they're fully committed to the straight edge, with no bends or gently curved sheepsfoots (at least for the models named wharncliffe; you can certainly get that profile on various Salts). Maybe that is hurting them by reducing the perceived flat-surface cutting utility. Or maybe it's the relatively broad tip, compared to a Yojimbo-style more pointed tip or the knivesplus-style mod shunsui posted that looks like it might pierce better? Not sure.

[Skywalker]

I think a part of the issue with the with spyderco's wharncliffe knives is that they're ugly looking. I really like the utility of the wharncliffe blade, personally, but the really wide curved blade that sticks out of the handle when closed just doesn't look right to me. I think a reverse tanto style blade, like on the yojimbo, would have been accepted better by the market.
...

I agree on the looks. But I found an interesting mod. Bought one of these in VG-10:
https://www.knivesplus.com/spyderco-end ... inish.html

If anyone's interested, they could ask KnivesPlus if they could do the mod on these:
https://www.knivesplus.com/spyderco-end ... liffe.html

This is dangerous... I had one S30V Delica wharncliffe before the 2023 discontinued list. Now I've added a K390 D4 wharnie and was considering an Endela K390 wharnie.

But now the belt grinder in the back of my garage is calling to me, saying "you could do that yourself...better get an Endura K390 wharnie as well!"

[standy99]

Wharncliffe - To me personally it is pretty much like the Tanto, ran it’s course of popularity (never was into the Tanto)

Have a few Wharncliffe knives and liked/bought them when more and more knives came out with them, probably wouldn’t even contemplate another knife in a wharncliffe blade.

This is interesting to me - are wharncliffes actually on the backside of their popularity peak?

I admit I don't always pay a ton of attention to industry trends as a whole but I still see lots of wharncliffe and sheepsfoot designs around. Things like the Benchmade Immunity, Hogue Deka wharncliffe and ZT 0762 that put a little bend before the straight edge to the tip, Kizer Sheepdog, or all the modern swaybacks like the MBK Slayback or Kizer Swaggs. CRK's Insingo seems more popular than ever judging from things like the EDC thread on BF - it does have a curved edge, but definitely still a sheepsfoot. Hinderer is still putting out wharncliffes.

Again, I'm usually pretty out of the loop, so maybe I'm off here. But these blade profiles seem to be normalized for everyday carry and use now much more so than ten or fifteen years ago.

Now for Spyderco specifically, yeah, they're fully committed to the straight edge, with no bends or gently curved sheepsfoots (at least for the models named wharncliffe; you can certainly get that profile on various Salts). Maybe that is hurting them by reducing the perceived flat-surface cutting utility. Or maybe it's the relatively broad tip, compared to a Yojimbo-style more pointed tip or the knivesplus-style mod shunsui posted that looks like it might pierce better? Not sure.

As they say by the time everyone caught on and is doing them it’s not a fad anymore.
Yes….plenty of people like a wharnie blade but not many are just buying wharncliffe only in all styles and brands.
Obviously sales have slowed up and discontinued is the outcome.

[dsvirsky]

While it is true that the high carbide steels like K390 excel at staying moderately sharp/dull for a long time, and at more obtuse angles than the scalpels, they also serve a purpose. I have a Endela wharncliffe that I put a new coarse edge on 2.5 months ago. I use it almost daily to process the household recycling (breaking down boxes, cut plastic, etc). It is still sharp enough to glide through cardboard without hangups after 10 weeks, without stropping or any other edge maintenance. That makes me happy.

Yes it won't shave arm hair anymore, but it still cleanly slices paper, and to a lesser degree phonebook paper. Some people might perceive that as dull, and that is fair enough. For me it is still sharp enough to do the job I ask of it well.

And that's the essence of it. Most of us don't need an edge that can whittle free hanging hair (while still be impressed by the ability to create that edge) any more than we need a car with a 500hp engine to go to the grocery store. What we need is a knife that stays sufficiently sharp to safely complete the tasks we use a knife for. Not dull, no matter what some may think. Sufficiently sharp. K390 works well in this context.

[ZrowsN1s]

It's unfortunate that I have to fall back on saying things like 'it's better steel' to some people (and not just about k390). It's like talking about math, some peoples eyes just glaze over when you try to talk about the finer points of steel.

They don't have the attention span for it.

FWIW, there is no such thing as better steel across the board. If that were true there would only be one type of steel produced. This is like saying 'Nike is better shoe'. Every steel has pros and cons. You really cannot say what the best steel is without carefully defining what the end user will do with the knife and what they are looking for performance-wise.

If I bought K390 blade and reprofiled it down to 5 DPS and compared it to AEB-L at 63 RC using the same edge geometry, I would likely not be running around telling all my friends it is better steel. If you like overbuilt factory edges that use the similar edge angles that are used on felling axes (on the order of 17 DPS) and like to use dull knives then it may be better.

We're on the same page there. My point was try explaining that to people who have a casual or zero interest in knives or knife steel. That's why I simply say to them, 'its better'. They don't have the attention span for the nuance of the pluses and minuses of different steels, with different heat treatments, for different tasks, at different geometries, and edge finishes. It's like showing a dog a card trick. They just kinda look at you sideways.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

It's unfortunate that I have to fall back on saying things like 'it's better steel' to some people (and not just about k390). It's like talking about math, some peoples eyes just glaze over when you try to talk about the finer points of steel.

They don't have the attention span for it.

FWIW, there is no such thing as better steel across the board. If that were true there would only be one type of steel produced. This is like saying 'Nike is better shoe'. Every steel has pros and cons. You really cannot say what the best steel is without carefully defining what the end user will do with the knife and what they are looking for performance-wise.

If I bought K390 blade and reprofiled it down to 5 DPS and compared it to AEB-L at 63 RC using the same edge geometry, I would likely not be running around telling all my friends it is better steel. If you like overbuilt factory edges that use the similar edge angles that are used on felling axes (on the order of 17 DPS) and like to use dull knives then it may be better.

We're on the same page there. My point was try explaining that to people who have a casual or zero interest in knives or knife steel. That's why I simply say to them, 'its better'. They don't have the attention span for the nuance of the pluses and minuses of different steels, with different heat treatments, for different tasks, at different geometries, and edge finishes. It's like showing a dog a card trick. They just kinda look at you sideways.

But it's a lie.... it's not better and that is misleading. I'd go the other way... buy them a byrd and teach them how to sharpen. To me, THAT is better. They don't need to know anything about metallurgy, they need to know how to sharpen. If you remove that need from the equation, then most of the 'advances' in metallurgy are merely academic.

[Deadboxhero]

It's unfortunate that I have to fall back on saying things like 'it's better steel' to some people (and not just about k390). It's like talking about math, some peoples eyes just glaze over when you try to talk about the finer points of steel.

They don't have the attention span for it.

FWIW, there is no such thing as better steel across the board. If that were true there would only be one type of steel produced. This is like saying 'Nike is better shoe'. Every steel has pros and cons. You really cannot say what the best steel is without carefully defining what the end user will do with the knife and what they are looking for performance-wise.

If I bought K390 blade and reprofiled it down to 5 DPS and compared it to AEB-L at 63 RC using the same edge geometry, I would likely not be running around telling all my friends it is better steel. If you like overbuilt factory edges that use the similar edge angles that are used on felling axes (on the order of 17 DPS) and like to use dull knives then it may be better.

We're on the same page there. My point was try explaining that to people who have a casual or zero interest in knives or knife steel. That's why I simply say to them, 'its better'. They don't have the attention span for the nuance of the pluses and minuses of different steels, with different heat treatments, for different tasks, at different geometries, and edge finishes. It's like showing a dog a card trick. They just kinda look at you sideways.

But it's a lie.... it's not better and that is misleading. I'd go the other way... buy them a byrd and teach them how to sharpen. To me, THAT is better. They don't need to know anything about metallurgy, they need to know how to sharpen. If you remove that need from the equation, then most of the 'advances' in metallurgy are merely academic.

Ain't nobody got time for that

K390 it is.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

FWIW, there is no such thing as better steel across the board. If that were true there would only be one type of steel produced. This is like saying 'Nike is better shoe'. Every steel has pros and cons. You really cannot say what the best steel is without carefully defining what the end user will do with the knife and what they are looking for performance-wise.

If I bought K390 blade and reprofiled it down to 5 DPS and compared it to AEB-L at 63 RC using the same edge geometry, I would likely not be running around telling all my friends it is better steel. If you like overbuilt factory edges that use the similar edge angles that are used on felling axes (on the order of 17 DPS) and like to use dull knives then it may be better.

We're on the same page there. My point was try explaining that to people who have a casual or zero interest in knives or knife steel. That's why I simply say to them, 'its better'. They don't have the attention span for the nuance of the pluses and minuses of different steels, with different heat treatments, for different tasks, at different geometries, and edge finishes. It's like showing a dog a card trick. They just kinda look at you sideways.

But it's a lie.... it's not better and that is misleading. I'd go the other way... buy them a byrd and teach them how to sharpen. To me, THAT is better. They don't need to know anything about metallurgy, they need to know how to sharpen. If you remove that need from the equation, then most of the 'advances' in metallurgy are merely academic.

Ain't nobody got time for that

K390 it is.

[Deadboxhero]

Ain't nobody got time for that

K390 it is.

Screenshot 2023-09-17 at 5.35.49 PM.png

[salimoneus]

Why would you suggest this? Didn't they just convert the entire FRN line over to K390 from VG10? Or did I miss an announcement that is changing again?

[Skywalker]

Why would you suggest this? Didn't they just convert the entire FRN line over to K390 from VG10? Or did I miss an announcement that is changing again?

Many of the wharncliffe or serrated K390 FRN models were on the 2023 discontinued list. (The standard blade profile and plain edge models remain.)

[cabfrank]

Why would you suggest this? Didn't they just convert the entire FRN line over to K390 from VG10? Or did I miss an announcement that is changing again?

That definitely didn't happen. It definitely won't. They do make some of the same models with both steels though.

[vandelay]

Wharncliffe - To me personally it is pretty much like the Tanto, ran it’s course of popularity (never was into the Tanto)

Have a few Wharncliffe knives and liked/bought them when more and more knives came out with them, probably wouldn’t even contemplate another knife in a wharncliffe blade.

wharncliffe specifically may have run its course but a straight or slightly curved edge still seems popular. I see that style from a lot of other brands, usually in reverse tanto, sheepsfoot or cleaver shape. I find that style tends to be most useful for the usual household tasks.

I think a part of the issue with the with spyderco's wharncliffe knives is that they're ugly looking. I really like the utility of the wharncliffe blade, personally, but the really wide curved blade that sticks out of the handle when closed just doesn't look right to me. I think a reverse tanto style blade, like on the yojimbo, would have been accepted better by the market.
...

I agree on the looks. But I found an interesting mod. Bought one of these in VG-10:
https://www.knivesplus.com/spyderco-end ... inish.html

If anyone's interested, they could ask KnivesPlus if they could do the mod on these:
https://www.knivesplus.com/spyderco-end ... liffe.html

Wow that is a nice looking mod. It even gets rid of that fat look when the knife is closed.

[ZrowsN1s]

Ain't nobody got time for that

K390 it is.

K390 all day
(Actually I've been carrying your 15V Manix)

[horzuff]

I would like to try k390. But since its only made in frn models I really do not want to spend my money on it. If they would (depending on the model) put it in a more expensive g10 version i would find it so attractive compared to now. I feel I really am struggling with spyderco’s tactic’s as of late.
The combo of cheap feeling frn with high performance steel really kills my appetite for more spydies.
Before someone gets upset I know frn isn’t cheap but the feeling in my hand will always scream plastic to me and will never give me a high quality feeling.
And that is why i want spydies namely for that high quality feeling they give me…

You can always swap out the scales. Here’s some “denim micarta” I found on Etsy from a maker in Ukraine. Gives it that real nice solid feel you’re looking for. The all in price is nice too; I’m still under the going rate on a Seki-City G10 knife.

Bought a set from him for like 55€ EU taxes included (he handles that himself, customs won't ask them again)



totally change the feeling of the knife. My only regret is not buying a backspacer to go with it. I was in a hurry and checked out so fast I did not see I could add a backspacer for really not much money

Could either of You share a link to the Etsy store? I like my Police LW scales but "variety is the spice of life" and all that ^^

[Ramonade]

Could either of You share a link to the Etsy store? I like my Police LW scales but "variety is the spice of life" and all that ^^

Type DHCustomKnives ans you'll find him ! I'm on the phone right now and am not good with this particular tool