Knife trends you just don't understand?

[aicolainen]

On most matters I’m not an either or person, so a characteristic that matters for one use case, may not for another.
For a lot of my use it’s important to have knives that are compact and light weight in pocket, yet having the longest blade-/edge possible will very often be beneficial. Like Bolster touches on, good blade/edge to handle ratio and size to weight ratio does not equal a good knife, nor a suitable knife, but they are good metrics to use in order to filter out suitable alternatives to take a further in-depth look at. It’s never the one and only deciding factor.

Then there are areas where I don’t care, e.g. my DF wharncliffe, my most carried knife bar none. Its blade length provides perfect control of the blade tip, and I wouldn’t want it any longer even though the handle could fit another few mm’s.

Same with the Chief. Maybe a bad example as it has a pretty stellar blade to handle ratio, but I was still hesitant to get one as my OCD had trouble accepting how much edge was lost to that big choil, especially on a knife that already had ample handle space. In actual use my concerns quickly evaporated. The cutting edge has proved long enough for all of my intended use and the choil has prevented so much blood, food residue and various gunk from getting into the pivot area, that the choil has proven a net benefit.

I will never not look for knives with good blade to handle ratio, but it’s not the only metric that matters, and some times it’s not important at all.

[StuntZombie]

Blade to handle ratio.

I've never considered a knife based on how large the blade was relative to the handle. Seems completely nonsensical to me that it's a driving force for people's opinions on how good a certain knife is or is not.

I used to agree with you here but the Resilience is starting to change my perception. After carrying one for a week it's tough going back to my Military or Manix XL's. Their cutting edge is so much shorter because of the choils.

I know a lot of people here love their index choils, but to me its started feeling like wasted space, because I rarely use them.

If it were a small difference in cutting edge like comparing a Police to a Military, I wouldn't care. But the Resilience has a full inch more cutting edge than a lot of folders with the same sized handle, which becomes very noticeable during use for me.

It's still not a deal breaker for me, but I've started paying a little more attention to this design aspect.

I've grown to dislike choils as well. Not only are you losing edge length, but I don't like having a handle that really only works well in one grip. One of my all time favorite handles belongs to the Emerson A-100, because it's as plain as you can get. No choils, no ramps, and it works in every single grip.

[StuntZombie]

Oops..double tap

[RustyIron]

Regarding the Great Choil Controversy:

I like more edge just as much as anybody, and I have no reason to ever choke up on a handle. Finger choils on my knives go unused.

However, I appreciate the aesthetic of the "choiled" knives. The profile has more "flow" when the knife is closed. They look better.

Is it possible to make a choilless blade and stick it into a choiled handle, say like the Manix 2? It certainly looks possible. But maybe such a creation would so offend the sensibilities of its creator, that he'll never do it.

[vivi]

Regarding the Great Choil Controversy:

I like more edge just as much as anybody, and I have no reason to ever choke up on a handle. Finger choils on my knives go unused.

However, I appreciate the aesthetic of the "choiled" knives. The profile has more "flow" when the knife is closed. They look better.

Is it possible to make a choilless blade and stick it into a choiled handle, say like the Manix 2? It certainly looks possible. But maybe such a creation would so offend the sensibilities of its creator, that he'll never do it.

I made this mock-up 3 years ago. It'd make the Manix XL go back to being one of my favorites.

[Bolster]

I made this mock-up 3 years ago. It'd make the Manix XL go back to being one of my favorites.

I like your mockup Vivi. We need a similar mockup for a choil-less Native Chief!

Wa-laa: a Vivified Native Chief...

[nerdlock]

On the topic of choils, I've never really understood why choiled Golden models have hard edges, or the chamfering is so small that you can still feel the edges of the scale. It really makes using the choils uncomfortable for those with medium to small hands. Manix, Lil Native, PM2, Para 3, etc.

Compared this to other knives with choils but with better chamfering, like the Hinderer XM-18, CS AD-15, among others, even though the knife scale thickness is thicker than Spyderco's, but the chamfering on them makes using the choil a more comfortable experience.

Even the Para 3 LW and the Shaman with their curvy edges makes using the choil so much better compared to the regular choiled models with little chamfering.

[cycleguy]

Buying more than one knife … I just don’t understand it

CG

[Woodpuppy]

Choils make sense to me only when the handle is too short for a full grip; so if you’re after a really compact knife for reasons, it makes sense. I’ve come down on the side of disliking them on any knife with a Spyderco hole/hump but they are more ergonomic on a knives like the Shaman where you can comfortably place your thumb on the spine where it naturally lands. That said, I’d rather have a choil-less Shaman with the attendant longer edge.

[vivi]

Choils make sense to me only when the handle is too short for a full grip; so if you’re after a really compact knife for reasons, it makes sense. I’ve come down on the side of disliking them on any knife with a Spyderco hole/hump but they are more ergonomic on a knives like the Shaman where you can comfortably place your thumb on the spine where it naturally lands. That said, I’d rather have a choil-less Shaman with the attendant longer edge.

Agreed on all three points. I use the choil on my Chief more than my other knives. They make the most sense to me on knives like the Dragonfly that depend on them for a full grip.

[vivi]

I made this mock-up 3 years ago. It'd make the Manix XL go back to being one of my favorites.

I like your mockup Vivi. We need a similar mockup for a choil-less Native Chief!

Wa-laa: a Vivified Native Chief...

That would have one heck of an edge to handle ratio.

[Bolster]

Choils make sense to me only when the handle is too short for a full grip; so if you’re after a really compact knife for reasons, it makes sense. I’ve come down on the side of disliking them on any knife with a Spyderco hole/hump but they are more ergonomic on a knives like the Shaman where you can comfortably place your thumb on the spine where it naturally lands. That said, I’d rather have a choil-less Shaman with the attendant longer edge.

On the other hand...the index choil in the blade offers remarkable fine edge control. If you are making delicate or precise cuts, especially with the heel of the blade, the choil is aces for offering excellent control and precision. If there's no choil on a knife, I still like to be able to get my finger pretty close to the blade, with a relatively thin guard area -- a large gap between where the index finger lands, and the heel of blade, translates into less control. Quite a bit less, in my experience.

I tend to prefer a choil on a knife I use for work, and no choil for an SD blade.

[HolySteel]

Wa-laa: a Vivified Native Chief...

My index finger is killing me just looking at that!!!

[vilePossum]

Free dropping blades.
Smooth movement etc is fine, but I consider a free dropping blade a liability when closing a folding knife.

[vivi]

Choils can definitely offer more control, especially on handle heavy knives, but how much more control does one need with a 3-4" blade?

I do much more precise cuts with my work knives (chef) than I do pocket knives, and they don't have choils. I'm usually using a 10" blade, sometimes 8" or 5". Julienne cuts where every portion has to be precisely 1/8" wide, uniform fine dices, trimming wagyu filets for maximum presentation, etc.

I'm with you on not liking a large gap between my grip and the cutting edge. Which, as backwards as it might sound, is why I don't like choils. A handle like the Resilience accomplishes the same thing just as well without one, while offering superior ergonomics.

For my hand size, a Manix XL or Police or Military feels pretty much perfect gripped behind the choil. I also feel like I have all the control I need from that grip. If I choke up with the choil then the ergonomics are a lot worse, particularly for my thumb due to the prominent thumb ramps.

So on those models it's a choice between maximum control or maximum ergonomics. On the Resilience I get both. That's why I carry it more than the other models I mentioned.

Now the Chief is comfortable in either grip due to no thump ramp, but then I run into a different problem. Gripped in the choil, my thumb extends so far down the spine I can use the first inch or so of edge to slice cardboard unless I tilt the knife so the tip is pointing almost straight up. So It nullifies the control advantage for a lot of cuts for me.

Now could I choke up on the Chiefs choil and wrap my thumb around the handle instead of placing it on the spine? Sure. But then I give up control. Making the extra control offered by the choil a moot point.

For my grip / hand size, the Resilience style design just works a lot better. It's in my pocket right now in fact.

Wa-laa: a Vivified Native Chief...

My index finger is killing me just looking at that!!!

Good thing there's more than one way to close a lockback

[HolySteel]

Choils can definitely offer more control, especially on handle heavy knives, but how much more control does one need with a 3-4" blade?

I do much more precise cuts with my work knives (chef) than I do pocket knives, and they don't have choils.

Wa-laa: a Vivified Native Chief...

My index finger is killing me just looking at that!!!

Good thing there's more than one way to close a lockback

That's been said many times, and I've watched the video many times. It just hasn't worked for me, but I'm very happy for those of you for whom it has

[vivi]

I get that, some things work better than others for each individual. Wasn't sure if you had seen the different methods but sounds like that's old news to ya.

[electro-static]

I think that many of the trends in the industry are understandable, and generally tend towards advancement of the industry. $40 goes a lot farther now.

I don’t understand the explosion of $70 to $200 “budget” knives made overseas.

I also don’t understand the rise of aftermarket hardware that costs more than the original knife.

There are particular types of knives that don’t understand the popularity of however, in particular Karambits, Tantos, balisongs, and automatics.

“Drop open” action knives and button-locks also perplex me because they are extremely close to the definition of gravity knives which are illegal most places.

I’m old

[HolySteel]

I get that, some things work better than others for each individual. Wasn't sure if you had seen the different methods but sounds like that's old news to ya.

Yeah, I've just had no luck with any method but one ... tighten the pivot screw to where the blade does not free fall, then pull it down with my thumb. Some of my favorite knives are Native 5's, and I close all of them that way with no problem, but they do offer a touch of protection if you have your index finger forward all the way.

I will probably tighten the pivot screw on my Siren.

[skeeg11]

I'm not really a choil guy either, but there is one Spydie with a choil that makes perfect sense to me and that is my UKPK serrated salt. Essential for peace of mind when using or closing.