Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?

[arty]

Yes, the nick was caused by the blade hitting the spring. I reprofiled the blade using a 1X30” belt sander, and it was a bear to do this. The Queen D2 steel is very wear resistant. I didn’t expect so much difficulty, since the blade is pretty thin.

[Mr_Whiskerz]

It truly makes me sad that so many people here in the good old USA are getting so brainwashed to believe that there is something immoral or politically incorrect about carrying a pocketknife.

Where is this happening?

[VandymanG]

Would the Mule Team SPY27 make a good steel for whittling? I was thinking I could hand grind a finger choil where the nub is located to give me more control. It’d would be a fun project and that mule doesn’t cost so much and it can be replaced if I damage it to much.

[Cl1ff]

Would the Mule Team SPY27 make a good steel for whittling? I was thinking I could hand grind a finger choil where the nub is located to give me more control. It’d would be a fun project and that mule doesn’t cost so much and it can be replaced if I damage it to much.

Factory geometry Spy27 has held up very well for me. I did some relatively broad testing and edge abuse and found the edge to be really stable and resist major deformation.
I haven’t taken it significantly thinner, which I think would cut better, but I suspect it would still be fine.

The tip on my Spy27 Mule Team 2 is very agile and acute, but is plenty strong. I’ve thrown and stuck it into a stumb several times.
I’ve used it, and my Native 5 in the steel, to trim plants around the house a lot.

They hold an edge well and sharpen nice too.

I’m currently testing my 15V Mule, so maybe I’ll go ahead and more thoroughly test whittling on different woods with both steels.

I didn’t have a loupe when I was testing the Spy27 before, anyway, so I might do it all over again to get a better look at the edges.

[JoviAl]

I use Magnacut, CPM Cruwear and S30V interchangeably for whittling at work. They all work OK so long as they are hellaciously sharp, but my little set of carving chisels/knives I’ve had for years puts them all to shame if I want to do anything more ambitious than a spatula. Take my experience with a healthy pinch of salt though - I’m not whittling anything particularly beautiful, just functional things like spoons, little cups, chopsticks, etc.

I really enjoyed Yab’s point though - whittling really is about the journey, it just so happens that you have a bit of something useful or pretty made of wood at the end of it (sometimes). I teach little children how to do it and they love it - it’s the most zen I ever see them. A freshly sharpened little Opinel No 6 and a stick they resonate with and they’re happy for hours.

[hobbyist]

I use Magnacut, CPM Cruwear and S30V interchangeably for whittling at work. They all work OK so long as they are hellaciously sharp, but my little set of carving chisels/knives I’ve had for years puts them all to shame if I want to do anything more ambitious than a spatula. Take my experience with a healthy pinch of salt though - I’m not whittling anything particularly beautiful, just functional things like spoons, little cups, chopsticks, etc.

I really enjoyed Yab’s point though - whittling really is about the journey, it just so happens that you have a bit of something useful or pretty made of wood at the end of it (sometimes). I teach little children how to do it and they love it - it’s the most zen I ever see them. A freshly sharpened little Opinel No 6 and a stick they resonate with and they’re happy for hours.

Which knives you using for this stuff?

[JoviAl]

I use Magnacut, CPM Cruwear and S30V interchangeably for whittling at work. They all work OK so long as they are hellaciously sharp, but my little set of carving chisels/knives I’ve had for years puts them all to shame if I want to do anything more ambitious than a spatula. Take my experience with a healthy pinch of salt though - I’m not whittling anything particularly beautiful, just functional things like spoons, little cups, chopsticks, etc.

I really enjoyed Yab’s point though - whittling really is about the journey, it just so happens that you have a bit of something useful or pretty made of wood at the end of it (sometimes). I teach little children how to do it and they love it - it’s the most zen I ever see them. A freshly sharpened little Opinel No 6 and a stick they resonate with and they’re happy for hours.

Which knives you using for this stuff?

The Spyderco ones? Magnacut is a Mule, Cruwear is a Yojimbo and a Manix 2 XL, the K390 is a Wharncliffe Dragonfly. They’re all sharpened to ~16DPS to hair popping (if not splitting) sharpness. I sometimes use a Cts204P Delica if I’ve blunted my main PE knife already that day (the Delica is usually kept clean and just for food).

[JD Spydo]

I use Magnacut, CPM Cruwear and S30V interchangeably for whittling at work. They all work OK so long as they are hellaciously sharp, but my little set of carving chisels/knives I’ve had for years puts them all to shame if I want to do anything more ambitious than a spatula. Take my experience with a healthy pinch of salt though - I’m not whittling anything particularly beautiful, just functional things like spoons, little cups, chopsticks, etc.

I really enjoyed Yab’s point though - whittling really is about the journey, it just so happens that you have a bit of something useful or pretty made of wood at the end of it (sometimes). I teach little children how to do it and they love it - it’s the most zen I ever see them. A freshly sharpened little Opinel No 6 and a stick they resonate with and they’re happy for hours.

I find your comments on older tools with older tool steels most interesting. And I can identify with that too. Just recently I did a repair job with some older Millers Falls chisels which were left to me from my late dad. He always insisted on good quality wood working tools. Not sure what steel Millers Falls used in their chisels, planes and other wood working tools>> but they sure do a great job in spite of their age.

[dj moonbat]

Would the Mule Team SPY27 make a good steel for whittling? I was thinking I could hand grind a finger choil where the nub is located to give me more control. It’d would be a fun project and that mule doesn’t cost so much and it can be replaced if I damage it to much.

Good steel? It's probably fine.

But Spyderco knives tend to have very tall blades, and the Mule Team is no exception. Tall blades aren't great for whittling.

[dan31]

My Gayle Bradly Air has been a fine whittling knife. The handle is a little to small for longer sessions but the wharnie M4 blade is built for the task.

[JD Spydo]

Would the Mule Team SPY27 make a good steel for whittling? I was thinking I could hand grind a finger choil where the nub is located to give me more control. It’d would be a fun project and that mule doesn’t cost so much and it can be replaced if I damage it to much.

Good steel? It's probably fine.

But Spyderco knives tend to have very tall blades, and the Mule Team is no exception. Tall blades aren't great for whittling.

Yeah that is a great observation. Not necessarily a "put-down" per se but it's just calling it the way you see it. There have been a few really good exceptions however. One being the recent C-60 Ayoob Sprint Run with Cruwear and the JD Smith model immediately comes to mind as well.

Also I've wanted to get my hands on one of the older "Des Horn" models. I do believe that extremely narrow and streamlined Wharnie could make an ideal whittling blade. Two other really old Spyderco models that come to mind that would make decent whittling tools would be the SPOT fixed blade model and the older SPUR model.

But more than anything I've just wanted to see which blade steels you all believe would be great for blades you can whittle with. With all the suggestions compiled the one I think I would love to try the most would be a blade made with 52100 carbon steel. And I do believe many of the tool steels would do fine as well.

[wrdwrght]

We are agreeing that no matter the steel, the wrong blade geometry can ruin whittling, right?

Do we agree that the right blade geometry will render even a now-modest AUS8 (if appropriately apexed) a surprise to a modern whittler, and might even be regarded as “ideal”?

Reminder to self: serious whittling was happening long before the Industrial Revolution made steel a matter of choice, indeed, before, long before, steel of any kind was a choice.

[vivi]

over thinking it imo

flexcut, a leader in wood carving knives, doesn't even mention what steel they use

https://www.flexcut.com/home/product/kn12-cutting-knife


Lee Valley provides the following description:

Exceptionally sharp and easily controlled, the double-bevelled, high-carbon spring-steel blades (Rc52-54) come fully honed, ready for use.

[Bolster]

" ...high-carbon spring-steel blades (Rc52-54) come fully honed, ready for use..."

Uh...wow. That's considered effective marketing copy?? Maybe if one has no point of comparison?

It is amazing how poor "cutting steels" can still be in this day and age. Purchased two folding-handle FastCap chisels (for a portable toolbox), and they hold an edge about as well as aluminum. I have to sharpen them after every use in soft wood.

[Manifestgtr]

I know this is ULTRA late to the party and essentially meaningless by now…

But blade geometry is, far and away, the biggest factor with carving knives. I’ll take a thin/low 52100 over a thick/high 15V any day…wood just isn’t crazy abrasive for the most part. My main carving knives are laminated mora sloyds. The biggest contribution the steel really makes is edge stability and with a lot of the higher vanadium steels, things get a little wonky in that dept. Cruwear and K390 are good contenders for their edge stability but they’re tough to find on blades suited for carving.

The one Spyderco I keep for carving is a dedicated Lil Native that I reprofiled down lowwwww…well under 20dps, probably closer to 25-30. Good for getting into tight spaces.

[vivi]

" ...high-carbon spring-steel blades (Rc52-54) come fully honed, ready for use..."

Uh...wow. That's considered effective marketing copy?? Maybe if one has no point of comparison?

It is amazing how poor "cutting steels" can still be in this day and age. Purchased two folding-handle FastCap chisels (for a portable toolbox), and they hold an edge about as well as aluminum. I have to sharpen them after every use in soft wood.

I think knife nerds get a little too wrapped up in high RC steels.

wood isn't abrasive. flex cut knives work well for their purpose. I've tried them.

most food isn't abrasive either. I used a Victorinox chef knife for a decade. It uses steel that's around 55rc. It got me through plenty of 12 hour shifts on the line.

60-65rc tool steels just aren't needed for most applications.

**** my low grit PE H1 knives hold a working edge longer than most high carbide steels do with an instagram edge.

[Bolster]

" ...high-carbon spring-steel blades (Rc52-54) come fully honed, ready for use..."

Uh...wow. That's considered effective marketing copy?? Maybe if one has no point of comparison?

It is amazing how poor "cutting steels" can still be in this day and age. Purchased two folding-handle FastCap chisels (for a portable toolbox), and they hold an edge about as well as aluminum. I have to sharpen them after every use in soft wood.

I think knife nerds get a little too wrapped up in high RC steels.

wood isn't abrasive. flex cut knives work well for their purpose. I've tried them....

I cop to being a knife nerd, but I think my search for harder wood blades is justified.

If I have to sharpen my chisels after each use in soft wood, I think that justifies a search for harder chisels. Wood may not be abrasive, but it surely can dull cutting tools in a jiffy. My wood planes with standard blades dull quickly, and I've started buying upgraded steels for them, which makes a big difference. I stopped using regular steel blades in my circular saws, bandsaws, and routers ages ago...it's tungsten carbide tipped in all of them. (TC is off the Rc scale, it's Mohs >9, Vickers >2500 or so.)

I don't own the Flex Cut brand, but I own a number of similar German carving knives, and while they work well enough when freshly sharpened, they take a comparatively lot of sharpening. I'd like the opportunity to buy harder steel wood tools, but a good share of the woodworking market seems remarkably traditional and doesn't mind using steels of decades past. Maybe that's because sharpening tech for newer steels is expensive.

I don't mind traditional wood cutting steels so much in my home shop, where I can sharpen when needed, but a wood tool that can keep its edge in the field is a real asset.

[vivi]

just to clarify my comments are in regards to whittling with knives. I haven't used chisels, but knowing how they're used I'd imagine it's a more demanding role, and higher performance steels would be more logical for that application.

[Deadboxhero]

Higher hardness is not just for resisting wear, it is for supporting lower geometry and it's thin geometry that cuts.

With softer steel, there is less microstructure support for a thin edge. Soft steel has a lower yield point meaning it will deform plastically sooner with less stress than a harder steel which would maintain its elasticity better.

Softer steel with thin geometry will roll more and sooner at the apex even with light use with a thin enough edge.

Also, the burr will tend to the blend into the apex making a foil edge rather than break off clean.

[Deadboxhero]

This might be a question for Larrin and I do hope he chimes in at some point. But I've been talking to a couple of old timers here in my home town that I've recently talked to about "whittling". Both of these guys I've talked to about whittling and both of them were using old CASE and QUEEN STEEL folders like the ones you buy at your local hardware store. Both folders had high carbon steel blades and both guys told me that even the newer/better stainless blades won't do for detailed whittling. However I feel that a few of the steels that Spyderco uses can also be great for whittling as well.

I wanted to immediately take issue with one guy in particular and even offered to let him use one of my ZDP-189 Spyders but he turned his nose up at the offer :rolleyes: I guess old dogs are content with the tricks they've learned already But I digress

I personally believe that some of these newer supersteels and even well heat treated tool steels would also be great blades to whittle with. What do you all say about that? Are there any steels that any of you guys ever tried to whittle with that you found to be good>> and I'm mainly speaking of blade steels that most of us Spyder-Heads frequently use? Also which blade grinds do you all find advantageous for whittling? Let's talk about that subject. And they don't just have to be stainless blades if you've found a carbon steel or a unique tool steel that you all like.

You may not need carbides for wear resistance but you do need a good hardness that's stable to maintain the thin geometry that will laser through the wood with ease.

When you are putting stress and flexing on the edge, you want it to NOT permanently deform readily. The permanent plastic deformation that is beneficial for impact/shock is not beneficial as beneficial as strength for wood carving. We want elastic deformation where the edge can flex and not break but then return back to shape. So we do need hardness.

One of my top picks is AEB-L at +62rc.

However, there's also steels like 26c3 "Spicy White" a swedish carbon razor steel that has a higher working hardness of +65rc which would also be excellent in that role.