A separate brand for Titanium knives from Spyderco ?

[bobnikon]

At the end of the day, however passionate your are about the brand, it is a mid-tier brand. (Yes I realize that will get me flamed, but I wore my NOMEX suit today). Say what you will about premium materials, unobtanium sprints that demand high value on the secondary, unique materials and steels, Spyderco is known for doing the mid tier extremely well. There could be some value in producing the high end knives with some sort of distinctive "branding" because it is a lot to expect people to pay $900 (Paysan in Canada) for a Spyderco.

Cheers

[Danke]

At the end of the day, however passionate your are about the brand, it is a mid-tier brand. (Yes I realize that will get me flamed, but I wore my NOMEX suit today). Say what you will about premium materials, unobtanium sprints that demand high value on the secondary, unique materials and steels, Spyderco is known for doing the mid tier extremely well. There could be some value in producing the high end knives with some sort of distinctive "branding" because it is a lot to expect people to pay $900 (Paysan in Canada) for a Spyderco.

Cheers

If they launched a premium brand then the knives would get more expensive in Canada.

[Mushroom]

At the end of the day, however passionate your are about the brand, it is a mid-tier brand. (Yes I realize that will get me flamed, but I wore my NOMEX suit today). Say what you will about premium materials, unobtanium sprints that demand high value on the secondary, unique materials and steels, Spyderco is known for doing the mid tier extremely well. There could be some value in producing the high end knives with some sort of distinctive "branding" because it is a lot to expect people to pay $900 (Paysan in Canada) for a Spyderco.

Cheers

If the new brand was offering the knives for the same price (same production standards) as Spyderco and the only difference is the brand name, then I would find it even more difficult to understand what the point of the new brand would be. It would still be asking people to pay $900 for a knife made by Spyderco, except it would have different branding and need a redesigned opening hole.

If they made the large investments to upgrade their production ability for a new brand, the price would also reflect that. The “$900 for a Spyderco” could probably be $1500 for a [new brand]. (Made by Spyderco.)

[JRinFL]

I'm not sure why a new premium branding would require a new opening hole shape. Just because Byrd has that goofy bird eye hole, doesn't mean the premium brand would require something other than the standard hole. Spyderco has licensed the hole for premium customs, so why not license it to its own brand?

In any event, I do not see it happening in any event.

[embry386]

I think splitting the Spyderco brand into multiple different brands for different handle materials would weaken the brand overall. Right now, Spyderco == a cool variety of innovative designs as well as classics, with generally good quality fit and finish, produced from a huge array of different materials. I like the variety, and I like that they're all called "Spyderco".

We already have the Byrd line for cheaper knives with lower-quality fit and finish. I think that distinction is enough.

[Mushroom]

I'm not sure why a new premium branding would require a new opening hole shape. Just because Byrd has that goofy bird eye hole, doesn't mean the premium brand would require something other than the standard hole. Spyderco has licensed the hole for premium customs, so why not license it to its own brand?

In any event, I do not see it happening in any event.

Yes, they license it for customs but not usually production. I don’t think its fair to lump those two into the same category.

Would the new brand still be Spyderco, just “premium” [Spyderco]? Or would it be a new different brand? If it’s a new different brand, even if it’s their own, I wouldn’t expect it to use Spyderco's trademarks. The round hole is a trademark of Spyderco. Similarly, the Byrds Eye opening hole is a trademark of Byrd.

What is going to distinguish, or separate, the premium brand from Spyderco? Just titanium builds?

[JRinFL]

I cannot speak for the OP, but my idea would be for all premium builds, production & sprints, to go through the upmarket brand. Not limited to just models with titanium scales. The OP's idea is a bit different than mine, I believe.

Sal has already stated that Spyderco is already bigger than he expected or wanted. I cannot see this happening if his mindset is still the same. I think he wants Spyderco to be more like Lotus and less like Jaguar.

[cjk]

I cannot speak for the OP, but my idea would be for all premium builds, production & sprints, to go through the upmarket brand. Not limited to just models with titanium scales. The OP's idea is a bit different than mine, I believe.

Sal has already stated that Spyderco is already bigger than he expected or wanted. I cannot see this happening if his mindset is still the same. I think he wants Spyderco to be more like Lotus and less like Jaguar.

Yeah, I think working electronics and lights are great!

[fanglekai]

Doesn't make any sense. There are already a ton of Spyderco knives made with titanium.

[vivi]

Reading through this thread I am completely baffled why people think the new company couldn't use the spydie hole.

They let Benchmade use it. They let custom makers use it. You really think they wouldn't let themselves use it?

Not seeing the logic.

[Mushroom]

Reading through this thread I am completely baffled why people think the new company couldn't use the spydie hole.

They let Benchmade use it. They let custom makers use it. You really think they wouldn't let themselves use it?

Not seeing the logic.

Trademarks. That simple.

Why doesn't Byrd use the Spydiehole? It’s literally Spydercos own brand.

Why would a brand thats not Spyderco, use Spyderco’s trademarks? That should be easy to understand but your mileage may vary.

(And for the record, no Spyderco did not “let Benchmade use it.” Benchmade just did it without their permission.)

[ykspydiefan]

Branding requires paperwork. Paperwork does not put a knife in your hands. Working on production and the Golden factory does. No new brands for me. "Spyderco" has their paperwork done, I would like them to focus on anything other than paper.

[Manixguy@1994]

Reading through this thread I am completely baffled why people think the new company couldn't use the spydie hole.

They let Benchmade use it. They let custom makers use it. You really think they wouldn't let themselves use it?

Not seeing the logic.

Trademarks. That simple.

Why doesn't Byrd use the Spydiehole? It’s literally Spydercos own brand.

Why would a brand thats not Spyderco, use Spyderco’s trademarks? That should be easy to understand but your mileage may vary.

(And for the record, no Spyderco did not “let Benchmade use it.” Benchmade just did it without their permission.)

Can you show us specific documentation to back up your statement about Benchmade ? MG2

[JRinFL]

Sal posted on this forum, back when the B'made kerfuffle happened, that he and Les had worked something out. No details were offered up, of course.

[Manixguy@1994]

Sal posted on this forum, back when the B'made kerfuffle happened, that he and Les had worked something out. No details were offered up, of course.

Correct around the time of Shiny Footprints thread by Sal and respect his comments on the subject . MG2

[Mushroom]

Reading through this thread I am completely baffled why people think the new company couldn't use the spydie hole.

They let Benchmade use it. They let custom makers use it. You really think they wouldn't let themselves use it?

Not seeing the logic.

Trademarks. That simple.

Why doesn't Byrd use the Spydiehole? It’s literally Spydercos own brand.

Why would a brand thats not Spyderco, use Spyderco’s trademarks? That should be easy to understand but your mileage may vary.

(And for the record, no Spyderco did not “let Benchmade use it.” Benchmade just did it without their permission.)

Can you show us specific documentation to back up your statement about Benchmade ? MG2

I’m not really sure what type of “specific documentation” you're looking for?

Here’s a post from Sal simply stating they reached an agreement - viewtopic.php?t=73291#p1134114

Hi Carl,

The short story is that Spyderco and Benchmade reached an agreement.

sal

I translate that to mean, Benchmade used Spydercos trademarked opening hole without permission but eventually the two parties came to a working agreement that Spyderco wouldn't sue Benchmade for trademark infringement.

Lastly, if it was officially authorized, I would expect Spyderco to want credit when another company uses their trademark.

https://www.benchmade.com/555.html
https://www.benchmade.com/550-s30v.html

No where in either listing is Spyderco given credit for the use their trademark.

———

This particular topic about Benchmade is what sparked the creation of “shiny footprints” on this forum. Apparently there is a long story behind Benchmade using the Spyderhole but the consensus is that it was not officially authorized to be used.

[Manixguy@1994]

This was on a AFCK BM box . MG2

[Mushroom]

https://i.postimg.cc/HWvGZQfh/IMG-7321.jpg
This was on a AFCK BM box . MG2

Oh, cool.

Is that included on current Benchmade knives sold with Spyderco’s trademark? I cant find any mention of that on their website. I wonder if including that sticker on the box was part of the agreement between the two companies, after it was used without permission.

[Manixguy@1994]

https://i.postimg.cc/HWvGZQfh/IMG-7321.jpg
This was on a AFCK BM box . MG2

Oh, cool.

Is that included on current Benchmade knives sold with Spyderco’s trademark? I cant find any mention of that on their website. I wonder if including that sticker on the box was part of the agreement between the two companies, after it was used without permission.

It is possible , but that model came out prior to the Griptilian . I won’t make any assumptions in that regard , just wanted to show it seems there was some effort at some point to rectify the problem . MG2

[electro-static]

I feel most people identify Spyderco with FRN/G10 utility knives. It's also a fact that many wonderful titanium knives made by Spyderco were discontinued (the Nirvana, the Slysz Bowie etc) because of what we assume to be low-volume sales. I fear one day the same will happen with the amazing Techno 2.

So I thought about how Spyderco should start a different brand for their titanium line up, much like they did for the Byrd line-up. A premium titanium brand with a different name. Imagine the Nirvana, the Slysz Bowie, the Techno 2, the Ikuchi and others being launched under the same brand new maketing umbrella ?

Does that sound like a good idea from a marketing standpoint ? Do you feel like it could help those models gather more sales ?

I don’t think that there would be much point in a different brand for spyderco’s titanium knives because they are already well established as an iconic mid to high end knife manufacturer. I also don’t think that spyderco makes enough Ti Framelocks to justify a second brand.

ZT exists because kershaw’s reputation has deteriorated over the years as a high end manufacturer (or rather they have chosen to chase the mid to low end market). Civivi exists because WE knife co wanted to get into the low to mid end edc market.

Spyderco has a budget brand already, and hasn’t put out poorly made low end products that would damage it’s reputation where it would need a re-brand for it’s really nice stuff.

Spyderco’s most powerful marketing continues to be it’s reputation for making excellent ergonomic cutting tools out of the craziest materials they can find and heat treating them well, carving out market segments that are poorly served by other brands.