Not just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.Bolster wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:32 pmgunmike1 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:39 amI have a small custom slip joint in AEB-L at about 63 RC. It is very thin stock, like .06” range, and was a near zero grind when I got it. I run angles well under 10 degrees with it and it is a tremendous slicer. It is so thin that when dull it still out slices most sharp pocket knives. It resharpens extremely quickly and takes very crisp and clean edges with ease. With a good heat treat AEB-L is a great steel if you are willing to go very thin with the blade and edge to take advantage of its properties. Having an AEB-L blade with a .025” edge at 17 degrees per side will underwhelm you with the performance compared to a mega carbide steel. If I tried to run most mega carbide steels as thin and acute as my AEB-L slip joint though it would end up causing a lot of damage to the edge that would take a long time to fix.
…
AEB-L is used as a razor blade steel, and it was designed to have very high edge stability. It has a small number of very fine carbides, and when ran at high hardness with a proper heat treat it has extremely high edge stability.
Excellent info, gunmike, thanks for this. What I hear you saying is that it's a razor blade steel so we should use it in razor-blade-like configurations and edges. You just sold me on the idea of the AEB-L mule, and I'll put as acute an edge on it as my Hapstone will allow (which I think is somewhere around 12?).
MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
- Traditional.Sharpening
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
- Deadboxhero
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Exactly, thin behind the edge. I run almost all pocket knives at 8-10 degrees per side with a 15 per side microbevel. That helps them cut, but getting the knife reground to be very thin behind the edge is where you see the huge increase in slicing performance. Like I said though, ultra thin can cause you problems if you twist out of heavy cuts or smack the edge into a big staple.Traditional.Sharpening wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:14 pmNot just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.Bolster wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:32 pmgunmike1 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:39 amI have a small custom slip joint in AEB-L at about 63 RC. It is very thin stock, like .06” range, and was a near zero grind when I got it. I run angles well under 10 degrees with it and it is a tremendous slicer. It is so thin that when dull it still out slices most sharp pocket knives. It resharpens extremely quickly and takes very crisp and clean edges with ease. With a good heat treat AEB-L is a great steel if you are willing to go very thin with the blade and edge to take advantage of its properties. Having an AEB-L blade with a .025” edge at 17 degrees per side will underwhelm you with the performance compared to a mega carbide steel. If I tried to run most mega carbide steels as thin and acute as my AEB-L slip joint though it would end up causing a lot of damage to the edge that would take a long time to fix.
…
AEB-L is used as a razor blade steel, and it was designed to have very high edge stability. It has a small number of very fine carbides, and when ran at high hardness with a proper heat treat it has extremely high edge stability.
Excellent info, gunmike, thanks for this. What I hear you saying is that it's a razor blade steel so we should use it in razor-blade-like configurations and edges. You just sold me on the idea of the AEB-L mule, and I'll put as acute an edge on it as my Hapstone will allow (which I think is somewhere around 12?).
- Traditional.Sharpening
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Yes, there is a learning curve to see what the material will support but you must actually take the knife to it's failure point in that way to know where the ideal blend of durability and cutting ability ends up. When you begin taking damage then you know you just need to go slightly more obtuse only up to about half the depth of the damage you see.gunmike1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:40 pmExactly, thin behind the edge. I run almost all pocket knives at 8-10 degrees per side with a 15 per side microbevel. That helps them cut, but getting the knife reground to be very thin behind the edge is where you see the huge increase in slicing performance. Like I said though, ultra thin can cause you problems if you twist out of heavy cuts or smack the edge into a big staple.Traditional.Sharpening wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:14 pmNot just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.Bolster wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:32 pmgunmike1 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:39 amI have a small custom slip joint in AEB-L at about 63 RC. It is very thin stock, like .06” range, and was a near zero grind when I got it. I run angles well under 10 degrees with it and it is a tremendous slicer. It is so thin that when dull it still out slices most sharp pocket knives. It resharpens extremely quickly and takes very crisp and clean edges with ease. With a good heat treat AEB-L is a great steel if you are willing to go very thin with the blade and edge to take advantage of its properties. Having an AEB-L blade with a .025” edge at 17 degrees per side will underwhelm you with the performance compared to a mega carbide steel. If I tried to run most mega carbide steels as thin and acute as my AEB-L slip joint though it would end up causing a lot of damage to the edge that would take a long time to fix.
…
AEB-L is used as a razor blade steel, and it was designed to have very high edge stability. It has a small number of very fine carbides, and when ran at high hardness with a proper heat treat it has extremely high edge stability.
Excellent info, gunmike, thanks for this. What I hear you saying is that it's a razor blade steel so we should use it in razor-blade-like configurations and edges. You just sold me on the idea of the AEB-L mule, and I'll put as acute an edge on it as my Hapstone will allow (which I think is somewhere around 12?).
- Deadboxhero
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- Deadboxhero
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
A lot of the new guys need to read this three times.Traditional.Sharpening wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:15 amYes, there is a learning curve to see what the material will support but you must actually take the knife to it's failure point in that way to know where the ideal blend of durability and cutting ability ends up. When you begin taking damage then you know you just need to go slightly more obtuse only up to about half the depth of the damage you see.gunmike1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:40 pmExactly, thin behind the edge. I run almost all pocket knives at 8-10 degrees per side with a 15 per side microbevel. That helps them cut, but getting the knife reground to be very thin behind the edge is where you see the huge increase in slicing performance. Like I said though, ultra thin can cause you problems if you twist out of heavy cuts or smack the edge into a big staple.Traditional.Sharpening wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:14 pmNot just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.Bolster wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:32 pm
Excellent info, gunmike, thanks for this. What I hear you saying is that it's a razor blade steel so we should use it in razor-blade-like configurations and edges. You just sold me on the idea of the AEB-L mule, and I'll put as acute an edge on it as my Hapstone will allow (which I think is somewhere around 12?).
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Nice video. At 62-63 RC for the AEB-L mule we should see some excellent performance. Far, far better than some of the 13C26 knives (same composition as AEB-L) that were at 57-59 RC I used in the past.
- Deadboxhero
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
I don't think you'll find many production AEB-L knives at 62-63rc so I'm excited for people to get their hands on it and try something they perhaps haven't experienced in a production format.
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Exactly, my only experience with AEB-L at 62-63 RC is with custom knives. Getting that in a production knife is great.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:21 pmI don't think you'll find many production AEB-L knives at 62-63rc so I'm excited for people to get their hands on it and try something they perhaps haven't experienced in a production format.
- Deadboxhero
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Definitely, I know someone will probably point out AEB-L has been able to achieve 64-65rc in some custom knives but I don't think that hardness is something that can be currently seen in a production setting at production volumes at this time.gunmike1 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:38 pmExactly, my only experience with AEB-L at 62-63 RC is with custom knives. Getting that in a production knife is great.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:21 pmI don't think you'll find many production AEB-L knives at 62-63rc so I'm excited for people to get their hands on it and try something they perhaps haven't experienced in a production format.
As seen in the video we can push a flat 12.5 dps edge and carve wood and still shave hair so we have plenty of capability for you edge freaks out there to play with.
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Ooooh! After watching that video I’m really looking forward to this!
- Al
Work: Jumpmaster 2
Home: DF2 K390 Wharncliffe/DF2 Salt H1 SE and K390 Police 4 LW SE/15V Shaman
Dream knives -
Chinook in Magnacut (any era)
Manix 2 XL Salt in Magnacut
A larger Rockjumper in Magnacut SE
Work: Jumpmaster 2
Home: DF2 K390 Wharncliffe/DF2 Salt H1 SE and K390 Police 4 LW SE/15V Shaman
Dream knives -
Chinook in Magnacut (any era)
Manix 2 XL Salt in Magnacut
A larger Rockjumper in Magnacut SE
- Traditional.Sharpening
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
That's a good start. Understanding it will allow them to see that there is going to be some work required of them to make almost any knife they buy the best and MOST EFFICIENT TOOL for their specifc use case. Additionally, it will also be required of them that they are willing to 'mess up' a perfectly nice looking knife by 'changing it' in a fundamental way with the expectation that it will actually take damage at a certain point.Deadboxhero wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:35 pmA lot of the new guys need to read this three times.Traditional.Sharpening wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:15 amYes, there is a learning curve to see what the material will support but you must actually take the knife to it's failure point in that way to know where the ideal blend of durability and cutting ability ends up. When you begin taking damage then you know you just need to go slightly more obtuse only up to about half the depth of the damage you see.gunmike1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:40 pmExactly, thin behind the edge. I run almost all pocket knives at 8-10 degrees per side with a 15 per side microbevel. That helps them cut, but getting the knife reground to be very thin behind the edge is where you see the huge increase in slicing performance. Like I said though, ultra thin can cause you problems if you twist out of heavy cuts or smack the edge into a big staple.Traditional.Sharpening wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:14 pm
Not just acute but also THIN behind that edge bevel.
This is a huge hurdle for many to overcome, it's like 'what if I 'ruin' my knife taking it too far? In truth, it's unlikely that you'll ruin it that way as you'd have to be running some seriously acute angles or just simply using it in an extreme way relative to the geometry you've applied. As a general rule, I would suggest you can virtually almost cut the existing 'factory' edge angle in half as a starting point. That will get you in a ballpark anyways for MOST production fare.
For Spyderco I'd say somewhere in the ballpark of 8-13 DPS is a good target to shoot for depending on the steel and carbide volume/type/ratios & heat treat, etc. for your specific knife. The X-factor is ultimately your skill in using an efficient cutting tool in a way that minimizes or eliminates damage where it would be easy for a careless user to inflict gross damage that would be very disheartening to see. This is where you sort of 'own your own warranty' by not being an idjit.
What I find helpful to consider here is the fact that in general, superior cutting geometry equals much less force being applied to the knife to cut most materials. Once you start getting around 12 DPS and above the force to cut can often be well past the point of what I'd consider 'safe' to be cutting certain materials. Slipping off a cut and/or poor cutting technique can easily land one in the hospital for a repair surgery. Remember they use a very similar tool to do surgery!
That said, think of it like this guys... durability in a knife is a nice luxury to have. It really sucks having to remove gross damage without power tools. Safety in your body and health is priceless and if it's me or the knife that is a very easy choice. I'll blow out 50 knives and still feel like I'm getting out ahead if I am unscathed. There's a video which I believe illustrates this point well, by Kyley Harris (former maker of CKC Knives). Shout out to BBB near the middle of video.
https://youtu.be/_RQ9mLCY8hM
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
1/10th micron polish? I think I need at least 1 because I am a compulsive ghost chaser
Mule Team Army 001
MNOSD 008
Stable Mules; Z-Max, Z-Wear, Magna Cut, SRS13, Rex 76, Rex T15.
MNOSD 008
Stable Mules; Z-Max, Z-Wear, Magna Cut, SRS13, Rex 76, Rex T15.
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Mule Team Army 001
MNOSD 008
Stable Mules; Z-Max, Z-Wear, Magna Cut, SRS13, Rex 76, Rex T15.
MNOSD 008
Stable Mules; Z-Max, Z-Wear, Magna Cut, SRS13, Rex 76, Rex T15.
- legOFwhat?
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Sal, Larrin & BBB? Which one is Billy Murray's character?Fireman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:24 am[img] https://exaircorp.files.wordpress.com/2 ... rs.jpg[img]
-Larry
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”
MNOSD #0049
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”
MNOSD #0049
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Well Larrin has to be Harold Rambis right?
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Been looking forward to this one. I’m planning to make my first set of scales for this mule. Already have the piece of iron wood burl that I’m going to use. Super excited and hoping I am able to get one.
Greg
* EDC> PM2 - S45VN, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Rockjumper - VG 10, Manix LW - CPM 4
Mules in current use AEB-L and K294
* EDC> PM2 - S45VN, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Rockjumper - VG 10, Manix LW - CPM 4
Mules in current use AEB-L and K294
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Order Success! Either Spyderco has upgraded their ordering system, or there's less competition for the AEB-L mule.
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
- Tucson Tom
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Dropping Soon
Well, that was smooth and easy. Almost anticlimactic with no crazy drama. Nice work from Spyderco. Thanks.