The Ignorance of Steel

[BeggarSo]

For a long time I have known about the quote "The Riddle of Steel" Since Conan the Barbarian came out in the theatre. Never made much sense to me how the cool sword his father forged was so easy to break. I guess it was metaphorical for the strength steel compared to the hand that wields it and all that jazz?

So I would like to explore The Ignorance of Steel as a topic.

For a long time I mistook S30V for being garbage and went on the hunt for the different steels of different magnificent properties. Lots of knives, lots of sharpening equipment, lots of wasted money. Or was it? I have certainly enjoyed the hobby.

It was not until a forum member going by the name of Vivi kept insisting on coarse edges that S30V was any good for me.

You see I went straight down the rabbit hole creating polished edges and low angles only to be constantly disappointed. doing free hand and sharpmaker, and Tsprofs, and strops and wicked edges and KME and hapstones heck I have at least 75 pounds worth of stones plates etc alone, diamond pastes angle cubes etc... and so on.

The real game changer for me was the CBN elliptical rods the GalleyV and the Gauntlet. I found that honing a blade already well apexed with the CBN rods followed by the Ceramic rods made S30V into the Super Steel it was supposed to be.

It was because I was finally sharpening the steel to its chemical composition not what influencers thought was cool and convinced me it was also.

This was my ignorance. Did I believe Vivi maybe 15 % it took a long time and pure stubbornness and willingness to try new things before my S30V collection began to really show its true potential.

I have since found S45VN and CPM Magnacut also respond extremely well to this combination.

I own a native in REX45 but have not done much with it.

I own a PM2 and Native in Maxemet and again they collect dust.

I own a GB2 in M4 again it sits.

I used to own a police 4 K390 but sold it due to how fast it corrodes.

Same is true of a PM2 in 5100

So I am wondering now just how to get the best out of these steels how do those of you who love these steels get your best performance out of them.

In realizing how ignorant I was of S30V for so long I can't help but admit there must be blind spots and ignorance on my part of these steels as well.

Perhaps some people will help me bring out the best in these steels I still own?

Thanks Vivi for all the great Videos and effort.

[Matus]

Steel - Sharpning tools - Sharpening technique / skill is a 3-piece puzzle and every knife user needs to find his/her own way to piece them together. And when all 3 parts fit together reasonably well - a sharp edge that is pleasure to use comes out.

[Giygas]

It's a massive oversimplification, but my understanding and experence is that high alloy steels (read: literally every modern knife steel) work best with a sub-1k grit edge.

"Works best" is hugely subjective though, and I think you're only gonna find your version of "works best" by testing different sharpening techniques.

[Bemo]

Great topic. I look forward to reading more on folks' journey. Myself, I started with 1000/6000 grit King water stone and Murray Carter. Not a bad place to start but not really up to higher carbide steels. For awhile I also chased 15K water stones and that mirror polish. But was not really satisfied with that. It just didn't last on steels. Vivi's posts and videos have been an eye opener, as has Science of Sharp, and now the dual grit method calls to me.

[Coastal]

It's a massive oversimplification, but my understanding and experence is that high alloy steels (read: literally every modern knife steel) work best with a sub-1k grit edge.

Pardon my ignorance, but by "sub-1k grit," do you mean a grit smaller than 1K, like 4000? Or do you mean a number smaller than 1K, like 400?

[Giygas]

It's a massive oversimplification, but my understanding and experence is that high alloy steels (read: literally every modern knife steel) work best with a sub-1k grit edge.

Pardon my ignorance, but by "sub-1k grit," do you mean a grit smaller that 1K, like 4000? Or do you mean a number smaller than 1K, like 400?

Sorry about that. That was worded terribly.

I meant coarser than 1k.

[WilliamMunny]

Big difference between push sharp and slice sharp.

[Coastal]

It's a massive oversimplification, but my understanding and experence is that high alloy steels (read: literally every modern knife steel) work best with a sub-1k grit edge.

Pardon my ignorance, but by "sub-1k grit," do you mean a grit smaller that 1K, like 4000? Or do you mean a number smaller than 1K, like 400?

Sorry about that. That was worded terribly.

I meant coarser than 1k.

Thanks! And good to hear, because that's what I've been doing.

[USMC-88]

Started with an Arkansas stone as a kid, then to a DMT sharpener, now mostly use a sharpmaker.

52100
M4
Cruwear
S45vn
S30v

[Brock O Lee]

I agree with the OP, there is nothing wrong with S30V-class steels with a good heat treatment.

I like grabby edges that slice well, so coarse finishes work for me (mostly DMT F or Spyderco medium). Credit to Cliff Stamp who opened my eyes to this years ago.

[me2]

Coarse edges work on any steel but it depends on use. One of the only edges I’ve seen that actually worried me a little was a Blue DMT coarse edge on a United Cutlery Tanto. It would almost reach out to cut things. I’d do it again if it hadn’t ruined my DMT stone. Soft steels and diamond stones don’t mix.

[TTFulltimer]

For us Ignorance or maybe well informed preference, for the steel agnosticism.

Grits ain't necessarily grits. Granny make grits, JIS makes grits, FEPA makes two grits, Microns make sense.

I put together a little chart that helps me decode the gritty details.
JIS is for "Japanese" stones
FEPA F is for "other stones" FEPA P is for "stropping papers"
Microns are the actual cutting particle size, one micron is one millionth of a meter, or 0.00003937 inches

For some reason, I cannot get my website pictures to post on here so just go to the URL for the chart.

http://www.digphoto.net/images/GritSizes.jpg

[Josh Crutchley]

For us Ignorance or maybe well informed preference, for the steel agnosticism.

Grits ain't necessarily grits. Granny make grits, JIS makes grits, FEPA makes two grits, Microns make sense.

I put together a little chart that helps me decode the gritty details.
JIS is for "Japanese" stones
FEPA F is for "other stones" FEPA P is for "stropping papers"
Microns are the actual cutting particle size, one micron is one millionth of a meter, or 0.00003937 inches

For some reason, I cannot get my website pictures to post on here so just go to the URL for the chart.

http://www.digphoto.net/images/GritSizes.jpg

Not sure if you've seen Gritomatics chart, pretty impressive.
https://www.gritomatic.com/pages/grit-chart

[BeggarSo]

Worse thing you can do is overthink it.

[TTFulltimer]

For us Ignorance or maybe well informed preference, for the steel agnosticism.

Grits ain't necessarily grits. Granny make grits, JIS makes grits, FEPA makes two grits, Microns make sense.

I put together a little chart that helps me decode the gritty details.
JIS is for "Japanese" stones
FEPA F is for "other stones" FEPA P is for "stropping papers"
Microns are the actual cutting particle size, one micron is one millionth of a meter, or 0.00003937 inches

For some reason, I cannot get my website pictures to post on here so just go to the URL for the chart.

http://www.digphoto.net/images/GritSizes.jpg

Not sure if you've seen Gritomatics chart, pretty impressive.
https://www.gritomatic.com/pages/grit-chart

Thanks,
Yes that is one of many sources I used to put together my simplified chart

[Ryder]

While I’ve heard and somewhat agree with stopping at 400 grit there seems to be more to the story. One article I read says K390 is a low alloy steel. Is this correct? Mine was fine at 400 grit but a bit better at 600 grit. Then I polished it to 1000 grit and not much difference. After stropping on the Beavercraft green compound it became downright scary and the higher performance was very easy to feel in tougher cutting. Also a polished edge seems to last far longer with less chance of micro chipping. All I can say for sure is I’m very impressed and happy with the steel and that finish on the edge.

[Bill1170]

While I’ve heard and somewhat agree with stopping at 400 grit there seems to be more to the story. One article I read says K390 is a low alloy steel. Is this correct? Mine was fine at 400 grit but a bit better at 600 grit. Then I polished it to 1000 grit and not much difference. After stropping on the Beavercraft green compound it became downright scary and the higher performance was very easy to feel in tougher cutting. Also a polished edge seems to last far longer with less chance of micro chipping. All I can say for sure is I’m very impressed and happy with the steel and that finish on the edge.

K390 is NOT a low alloy steel.

[Ryder]

While I’ve heard and somewhat agree with stopping at 400 grit there seems to be more to the story. One article I read says K390 is a low alloy steel. Is this correct? Mine was fine at 400 grit but a bit better at 600 grit. Then I polished it to 1000 grit and not much difference. After stropping on the Beavercraft green compound it became downright scary and the higher performance was very easy to feel in tougher cutting. Also a polished edge seems to last far longer with less chance of micro chipping. All I can say for sure is I’m very impressed and happy with the steel and that finish on the edge.

K390 is NOT a low alloy steel.

This is the article that I’m definitely questioning.

https://thetruthaboutknives.com/k390-st ... eel-guide/

What I do know is it takes a fine, sharp, durable edge and seems to hold it for a very long time

[Freediver]

First you must ask yourself what is best in life.

[Steeltoez83]

I use chapstick as a rust/corrosion prevention on my knives. I just did an experiment on how well that protected steel from 3 hours of being soaked in hot sauce. Well it was cholula sauce but it was free. I filmed a video for my youtube channel on that experiment. But the downside of steels like maxamet, k390 even m4 is rust for most ppl. Ive always used chapstick as a daily or weekly routine and its worked for me. But I wanted to put negligence in overdrive and see what exactly happens when I forget proper practices.