Please remove MAP pricing forever!

[Danke]

Maybe the dealers don't need to discount Spyderco a lot to sell them?

That's pretty normal in retail. If stuff moves the prices stay static. If stuff clogs up the shelves the prices go down.

[electro-static]

Maybe the dealers don't need to discount Spyderco a lot to sell them?

That's pretty normal in retail. If stuff moves the prices stay static. If stuff clogs up the shelves the prices go down.

The most heavily discounted models were older ones. I picked up a Spydie Chef for $190. I think the maxamet PM 3 was actually more expensive than the maxamet PM2 on knivesshipfree. I got a bunch of new knives to try now.

Although ai wonder if it’s mostly sprints that ate moving instead of regular production models.

[Bolster]

Some of you pro-MAP folks seem to think that pre-MAP was a disaster, but it wasn't.

For me, post-MAP simply means I buy fewer knives.

[snark]If we are doing snark, then why don't they set MAP (0% off) at MSRP. I mean after all, people complained about the 3 MAP increases and still bought knives, so why not take it to the logical conclusion. Also set Seconds at 75% of MSRP because why leave money on the table? Heck, lets' do away with it all and just make it a monthly subscription where you are loaned the latest knife for a month, but don't get to own any. Just like the big software companies do. [/snark]

Now THAT is how you do snark! Pay attention, kiddies!

[benben]

Some of you pro-MAP folks seem to think that pre-MAP was a disaster, but it wasn't.

For me, post-MAP simply means I buy fewer knives.

[snark]If we are doing snark, then why don't they set MAP (0% off) at MSRP. I mean after all, people complained about the 3 MAP increases and still bought knives, so why not take it to the logical conclusion. Also set Seconds at 75% of MSRP because why leave money on the table? Heck, lets' do away with it all and just make it a monthly subscription where you are loaned the latest knife for a month, but don't get to own any. Just like the big software companies do. [/snark]

Now THAT is how you do snark! Pay attention, kiddies!

Pretty much sums it up for me, well said!

[Spyder-fan]

I miss the pre-MAP days

[nerdlock]

Some of you pro-MAP folks seem to think that pre-MAP was a disaster, but it wasn't.

For me, post-MAP simply means I buy fewer knives.

[snark]If we are doing snark, then why don't they set MAP (0% off) at MSRP. I mean after all, people complained about the 3 MAP increases and still bought knives, so why not take it to the logical conclusion. Also set Seconds at 75% of MSRP because why leave money on the table? Heck, lets' do away with it all and just make it a monthly subscription where you are loaned the latest knife for a month, but don't get to own any. Just like the big software companies do. [/snark]

Now THAT is how you do snark! Pay attention, kiddies!

I would have never gotten into Spyderco had it not been for that pre-MAP Delica that I bought several years ago.

[skeeg11]

Spyderco has done some pretty amazing things both pre-MAP and post-MAP. I believe JD's Golden Era was pre-MAP. To be a success on a consistent basis, one must balance being both visionary artist and good businessman. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it was during pre-MAP days that Sal stared bankruptcy in the face and took out a second mortgage on their house. That had to be really scary and an abrupt wake up call no matter how many rave about your genius.

[fanglekai]

Map is there to … help … buyers

Sir you’ll have to help the less savvy among us understand how consumers have been helped by MAP since its introduction.

MAP protects small dealers, which in my personal opinion protects me as a customer. I don't buy knives from Amazon, because, lets face it, they don't really have an interest in creating a good relationship with their customers, they just aim to make the maximum profit. In my experience, the only time they help you out is if they think they would be hurting themselves if they didn't. Not a pleasant way to be treated. However, I have had wonderful experiences with half a dozen small dealers who value their customers and will do whatever it takes to make me happy with my purchasing experience.

Those are the people I want to buy from and I consider it to be in my best interest if they have a fair chance. Small knife dealers have become one of my favorite discoveries since getting into knives. I would feel awful if they started disappearing and would be far less enthusiastic about acquiring new knives.

I don't notice any special service from small online retailers vs amazon. I order knives, they show up. If there's a problem (and I haven't had any yet) I'd just return the knife regardless of retailer.

[SchoonerBum]

I haven't read the whole thread (no time right now as I'm at work) but I'll throw a couple of thoughts in.

Spyderco is the only major knife company making a significant investment into making salt-water proof knives. For those of us who work and live on the water, this is it. Yes, I used a 440C rig knife for years and it was fine, it just required regular maintenance, but having truly rust-proof knives is a marvel. If MAP pricing means that Spyderco can make things like the salt series (or S110V, K390, or any of the other wundersteels) be regular production offerings, that tradeoff is well worth it to me.

The MAP holiday was amazing (Thanks Spyderco!), and I hope that becomes a pleasant surprise that recurs occasionally. It keeps us all on our toes. :-)

[nerdlock]

Spyderco is the only major knife company making a significant investment into making salt-water proof knives. For those of us who work and live on the water, this is it. Yes, I used a 440C rig knife for years and it was fine, it just required regular maintenance, but having truly rust-proof knives is a marvel. If MAP pricing means that Spyderco can make things like the salt series (or S110V, K390, or any of the other wundersteels) be regular production offerings, that tradeoff is well worth it to me.

Regular production Spyderco Salts have existed long before MAP was implemented...

[RamZar]

Spyderco is the only major knife company making a significant investment into making salt-water proof knives. For those of us who work and live on the water, this is it. Yes, I used a 440C rig knife for years and it was fine, it just required regular maintenance, but having truly rust-proof knives is a marvel.

I think you meant highly corrosion resistant stainless steels where Spyderco has/had four of them: H-1, H-2, LC200N and MagnaCut.

Benchmade uses a different highly corrosion resistant stainless steel: N680.

I have knives in all the aforementioned highly corrosion resistant stainless steels plus Vanax.

The steel I use most is M390/20CV and it’s very corrosion resistant and have had no issues in humid, salty, sandy and sweaty environments.

I hope Larrin (tests below) includes H-1, H-2 and N680 in future tests.

[SchoonerBum]

nerdlock, RamZar,

You both make good points and I wouldn't argue with either of you.

I discovered Spyderco after MAP was implemented so I can't speak to the before-times. I just know it's worth it for me in the present moment.

You are correct, highly corrosion resistant. I was imprecisely generalizing for brevity.

I was able to find a discontinued Benchmade 112 in N680 last year and it is now my favorite dive knife, but they don't make it anymore or seem to have many other N680 offerings. I'll have to explore around, I certainly could have misspoken.

My most-used non-salt knives are 20cv/m390 and they are fantastic, but I dip my knives in salt water (on purpose or not) often enough that I only use 20cv/m390 when I'm not on the water. Maybe I'm being overly conservative with them.

I would LOVE to see Larrin include H1, H2, and N680 in his tests! I've really enjoyed nerding out on both Larrin's work and this community as a whole - it's quite an impressive brain trust around here!

[RamZar]

You are correct, highly corrosion resistant. I was imprecisely generalizing for brevity.

I was able to find a discontinued Benchmade 112 in N680 last year and it is now my favorite dive knife, but they don't make it anymore or seem to have many other N680 offerings. I'll have to explore around, I certainly could have misspoken.

My most-used non-salt knives are 20cv/m390 and they are fantastic, but I dip my knives in salt water (on purpose or not) often enough that I only use 20cv/m390 when I'm not on the water. Maybe I'm being overly conservative with them.

I would LOVE to see Larrin include H1, H2, and N680 in his tests! I've really enjoyed nerding out on both Larrin's work and this community as a whole - it's quite an impressive brain trust around here!

I believe Benchmade now only has N680 on folders.

I don’t know how well M390/20CV would withstand constant salt water use. For occasional use they do more than just fine.

I’d definitely want to see a side-by-side salt water test like Larrin’s for highly corrosion resistant stainless steels: H-1, H-2, LC200N, MagnaCut (New Steel below), N680 and Vanax.

[vivi]

I haven't read the whole thread (no time right now as I'm at work) but I'll throw a couple of thoughts in.

Spyderco is the only major knife company making a significant investment into making salt-water proof knives. For those of us who work and live on the water, this is it. Yes, I used a 440C rig knife for years and it was fine, it just required regular maintenance, but having truly rust-proof knives is a marvel. If MAP pricing means that Spyderco can make things like the salt series (or S110V, K390, or any of the other wundersteels) be regular production offerings, that tradeoff is well worth it to me.

The MAP holiday was amazing (Thanks Spyderco!), and I hope that becomes a pleasant surprise that recurs occasionally. It keeps us all on our toes. :-)

This is my #1 reason for being so loyal to them over the years. Game changer for me too.

[vivi]

Spyderco is the only major knife company making a significant investment into making salt-water proof knives. For those of us who work and live on the water, this is it. Yes, I used a 440C rig knife for years and it was fine, it just required regular maintenance, but having truly rust-proof knives is a marvel.

I think you meant highly corrosion resistant stainless steels where Spyderco has/had four of them: H-1, H-2, LC200N and MagnaCut.

Benchmade uses a different highly corrosion resistant stainless steel: N680.

I have knives in all the aforementioned highly corrosion resistant stainless steels plus Vanax.

The steel I use most is M390/20CV and it’s very corrosion resistant and have had no issues in humid, salty, sandy and sweaty environments.

I hope Larrin (tests below) includes H-1, H-2 and N680 in future tests.

N680 is not even close to being on the level of H1 when it comes to corrosion resistance.

[attila]

Spyderco is the only major knife company making a significant investment into making salt-water proof knives. For those of us who work and live on the water, this is it. Yes, I used a 440C rig knife for years and it was fine, it just required regular maintenance, but having truly rust-proof knives is a marvel.

I think you meant highly corrosion resistant stainless steels where Spyderco has/had four of them: H-1, H-2, LC200N and MagnaCut.

Benchmade uses a different highly corrosion resistant stainless steel: N680.

I have knives in all the aforementioned highly corrosion resistant stainless steels plus Vanax.

The steel I use most is M390/20CV and it’s very corrosion resistant and have had no issues in humid, salty, sandy and sweaty environments.

I hope Larrin (tests below) includes H-1, H-2 and N680 in future tests.

N680 is not even close to being on the level of H1 when it comes to corrosion resistance.

Do you say this from first-hand experience? What would you compare it to instead?

If you’re going off of the above chart, that’s N690 not N680. A comparison of the two chemistries (less C, +N, +Ni) definitely makes N680 look far better for corrosion resistance than N690. How good? I don’t know, but I’d still rather have Magnacut or S110V (yes, I take my M2LW into the ocean).

[vivi]

I never go by charts when discussing steels, I go by experience.

I've had knives in that steel from other brands and got spotting on the blade within a day. 125bk Azeria comes to mind.

I have Pacific Salts I've carried for over a decade with zero spotting.

They're not in the same ballpark.

People have taken S110V, VG10, 440C etc. into oceans and they've done ok. That's great. I can rust all those steels in one hour on a summer trail run carrying them IWB. H1 I can't. That's why I love it.

I'd put N680 in the same ballpark as 440C when it comes to corrosion resistance. Certainly good compared to the full spectrum of steels out there, but not in the same league as LC200N, H1, etc.

[attila]

Thanks for the clarification! I wasn’t sure, so I had to ask.

I definitely wouldn’t take VG-10 into the ocean, but my S110V was completely unfazed except for a tiny spot one time that I didn’t rinse well enough for a few days. I’ll have to try the IWB on a sweaty summer run someday. Maybe I’ll be surprised.

[JRinFL]

MAP is here to stay (ugh), for a variety of good reasons. All I ask is that the balance be put back a little in favor of the ELU.

Maybe the larger dealers could help us as well, but many didn't even have good BF deals, so you can see how they would answer.

[vandelay]

People have taken S110V, VG10, 440C etc. into oceans and they've done ok. That's great. I can rust all those steels in one hour on a summer trail run carrying them IWB. H1 I can't. That's why I love it.

I've had similar issues with VG-10, but I'm surprised S110V doesn't hold up. I thought that was its main selling point over S90V.
I'm also a bit surprised that H1 is so popular when LC200N is similarly stainless and holds an edge better. I've never been able to get LC200N to rust at all.