CPM 15v Manix 2

[twinboysdad]

Thanks Shawn, I think that needed to be said. It will be sad when the collectors get their hands on this knife, just to collect dust. Or the folks that will use it for peppers, apples and strawberries...but feel the need for this kind of steel for some reason, and sadly that's probably where a majority of these will be going.

As someone that uses my knives 6 days a week, and quite often throughout the day, and also love the high edge retention steels because of those reasons...I agree, those are made for users!! Not the other way around. There are so many people out that consider sharpening knives as giving them passes on their Sharpmaker brown rods. Which they would then be unsuccessful at actual sharpening, and then likely bash the steel...because they don't have the equipment or skill for it. You really hit the nail on the head with a lot of the things you said. I think people need to step back and think about those things before buying this knife, if they are actually going to be using it. Not just because it's a sprint, a different steel and something even more different with you being so heavily involved. I personally intend on getting one, and will use the crap out of it at work and will be happy to report back my findings, as well as sharpening experience when the time comes.

Again, thanks for that post. I couldn't agree more.

Glad this is being discussed. I am a brown rod sharpmaker guy, which is probably why VG10 works so well for me. Definitely sounds like I need to pass and let someone who can appreciate it more get one

[bdblue]

Some references here can be obscure. I'll just make an appeal...

Hope that helps.
(And hope I got all that right )

Thank you for adding this information.

[bdblue]

Finally so I can lean more why would someone chose 15v over S90V? They are booth around the same toughness, have about the same edge retention but 15v is not stainless.

That's a good question, and a question that I've wondered about also. I think there might be more to it than this. I've seen some of the charts of toughness vs edgeholding and I've noticed that S110v and S90V are pretty high up there, in the range of K390 and Maxamet. We go crazy for K390 and now we're talking about 15V, but S110V is much easier to find.

[ladybug93]

Thanks Shawn, I think that needed to be said. It will be sad when the collectors get their hands on this knife, just to collect dust. Or the folks that will use it for peppers, apples and strawberries...but feel the need for this kind of steel for some reason, and sadly that's probably where a majority of these will be going.

As someone that uses my knives 6 days a week, and quite often throughout the day, and also love the high edge retention steels because of those reasons...I agree, those are made for users!! Not the other way around. There are so many people out that consider sharpening knives as giving them passes on their Sharpmaker brown rods. Which they would then be unsuccessful at actual sharpening, and then likely bash the steel...because they don't have the equipment or skill for it. You really hit the nail on the head with a lot of the things you said. I think people need to step back and think about those things before buying this knife, if they are actually going to be using it. Not just because it's a sprint, a different steel and something even more different with you being so heavily involved. I personally intend on getting one, and will use the crap out of it at work and will be happy to report back my findings, as well as sharpening experience when the time comes.

Again, thanks for that post. I couldn't agree more.

Glad this is being discussed. I am a brown rod sharpmaker guy, which is probably why VG10 works so well for me. Definitely sounds like I need to pass and let someone who can appreciate it more get one

i don't know... i'm totally happy with tougher steels that are softer and more corrosion resistant. shawn's post totally put me off of wanting to try this knife, but not because of my steel preferences... because of his attitude. i don't like the implication that people with different preferences are somehow less than those that think they need the forever retention of his specially heat treated 15v. we're not just newb tourists for being fine with s30v, lc200n, vg10, etc. maybe i'm reading too much into the post, but it comes off as very elitist and condescending to me.

[WilliamMunny]

Thanks Shawn, I think that needed to be said. It will be sad when the collectors get their hands on this knife, just to collect dust. Or the folks that will use it for peppers, apples and strawberries...but feel the need for this kind of steel for some reason, and sadly that's probably where a majority of these will be going.

As someone that uses my knives 6 days a week, and quite often throughout the day, and also love the high edge retention steels because of those reasons...I agree, those are made for users!! Not the other way around. There are so many people out that consider sharpening knives as giving them passes on their Sharpmaker brown rods. Which they would then be unsuccessful at actual sharpening, and then likely bash the steel...because they don't have the equipment or skill for it. You really hit the nail on the head with a lot of the things you said. I think people need to step back and think about those things before buying this knife, if they are actually going to be using it. Not just because it's a sprint, a different steel and something even more different with you being so heavily involved. I personally intend on getting one, and will use the crap out of it at work and will be happy to report back my findings, as well as sharpening experience when the time comes.

Again, thanks for that post. I couldn't agree more.

Glad this is being discussed. I am a brown rod sharpmaker guy, which is probably why VG10 works so well for me. Definitely sounds like I need to pass and let someone who can appreciate it more get one

i don't know... i'm totally happy with tougher steels that are softer and more corrosion resistant. shawn's post totally put me off of wanting to try this knife, but not because of my steel preferences... because of his attitude. i don't like the implication that people with different preferences are somehow less than those that think they need the forever retention of his specially heat treated 15v. we're not just newb tourists for being fine with s30v, lc200n, vg10, etc. maybe i'm reading too much into the post, but it comes off as very elitist and condescending to me.

It’s the internet take everything with a grain of salt. My first read felt like he was talking directly to/down me. If this forum could rent a hall, had food and beer I think we would all have a ton of fun. We all share the same passion for knives and no one should fell not good enough for a certain steel. But it is good to know that it could be frustrating to sharpen. Maybe this would be a good place to share the best way to sharpen 15v without a $600 sharpening system. Just leave the knives at home… beer + knives could be bad.

[TkoK83Spy]

I wouldn't care as much if it weren't a sprint run knife. Regular production would be different. It's such a unique steel, I'd love to see that small quantity end up in the hands people that will be using it to its limits, or what they think could be. Hearing feedback on reprofiles, what dps, grit finish. That would be great information for the community to receive back. I just fear this will be another that we don't see or hear much about.

[Eli Chaps]

Thanks Shawn, I think that needed to be said. It will be sad when the collectors get their hands on this knife, just to collect dust. Or the folks that will use it for peppers, apples and strawberries...but feel the need for this kind of steel for some reason, and sadly that's probably where a majority of these will be going.

As someone that uses my knives 6 days a week, and quite often throughout the day, and also love the high edge retention steels because of those reasons...I agree, those are made for users!! Not the other way around. There are so many people out that consider sharpening knives as giving them passes on their Sharpmaker brown rods. Which they would then be unsuccessful at actual sharpening, and then likely bash the steel...because they don't have the equipment or skill for it. You really hit the nail on the head with a lot of the things you said. I think people need to step back and think about those things before buying this knife, if they are actually going to be using it. Not just because it's a sprint, a different steel and something even more different with you being so heavily involved. I personally intend on getting one, and will use the crap out of it at work and will be happy to report back my findings, as well as sharpening experience when the time comes.

Again, thanks for that post. I couldn't agree more.

Glad this is being discussed. I am a brown rod sharpmaker guy, which is probably why VG10 works so well for me. Definitely sounds like I need to pass and let someone who can appreciate it more get one

i don't know... i'm totally happy with tougher steels that are softer and more corrosion resistant. shawn's post totally put me off of wanting to try this knife, but not because of my steel preferences... because of his attitude. i don't like the implication that people with different preferences are somehow less than those that think they need the forever retention of his specially heat treated 15v. we're not just newb tourists for being fine with s30v, lc200n, vg10, etc. maybe i'm reading too much into the post, but it comes off as very elitist and condescending to me.

That wasn't Shawn's point at all and he has a well established history of acknowledging folks that are happy with what they have, provided they are making that choice from an educated position.

[Eli Chaps]

It’s the internet take everything with a grain of salt. My first read felt like he was talking directly to/down me. If this forum could rent a hall, had food and beer I think we would all have a ton of fun. We all share the same passion for knives and no one should fell not good enough for a certain steel. But it is good to know that it could be frustrating to sharpen. Maybe this would be a good place to share the best way to sharpen 15v without a $600 sharpening system. Just leave the knives at home… beer + knives could be bad.

6" 300grit Ultra Sharp diamond plate. $35. 1um diamond paste on a paint stick. You're on your way.

[Hopsbreath]

The Cruwear S2XL is too similar to the Cruwear Ayoob I just got, but this Manix has me way too curious. The price is right too, I’m in.

[WilliamMunny]

It’s the internet take everything with a grain of salt. My first read felt like he was talking directly to/down me. If this forum could rent a hall, had food and beer I think we would all have a ton of fun. We all share the same passion for knives and no one should fell not good enough for a certain steel. But it is good to know that it could be frustrating to sharpen. Maybe this would be a good place to share the best way to sharpen 15v without a $600 sharpening system. Just leave the knives at home… beer + knives could be bad.

6" 300grit Ultra Sharp diamond plate. $35. 1um diamond paste on a paint stick. You're on your way.

I never thought of using a paint stick, great idea. I did see some people say denim works better than leather but a soft wooden paint stick makes sense too.

[Deadboxhero]

Thank you for all of the information, I know I am always trying to learn more about knife steels myself. Unfortunately my full time job is not dealing with knives but it is a hobby that I have fun with and try to learn what I can. As you said there is a lot of miss information out there and it takes a lot to sort it out. I just ordered a PM2 in Cruwear for a EDC to use and not really worry too much about what I am doing with it. I am hoping it is a fairly well rounded steel that will do most things well.

I am interested in trying a high edge retention steel like 15v but I have heard so many negatives about steels like Maxamet and S110V. Most are probably not warranted but people say it will chip, it will rust, the tip will break, etc. On the flip side many people say just don’t abuse it, use it for what a knife was meant for and there will be no issues.

That's the problem is that you have people who have widely varying opinions about what a knife is supposed to be for, most of what makes a knife durable is geometry, if you know you're going to use a knife like a cold chisel than slap a +30dps convex bevel on it and run with it that can only do so much however since a FFG is not best for a pry tool. Most importantly going "thick AF" is not a one size solution for everybody because it's not going to cut as good so what people realize is if they want laser cutting performance they have to treat it more like a knife. You can buy a cold chisel for 10 bucks and I promise you there's nothing fancy going on with the steel, it's just geometry.

I love the Manix platform and have EDC one for 8 years in S30V. I always wanted something with more edge retention so this could be a good knife for me to get into this type of steel. It will let me experience a high edge retention steel, help me learn how to care for a tool steel in an high humidity area and help me learn how to strop a knife.

The most important thing is to just keep it dry or dry it off.


Don't be afraid of it developing spots from a patina
It will naturally stain and develop a patina which is a type of dark gray/bluish rust thats not actively eating the steel, if you find reddish brown spots that is an active rust that should be cleaned off. The main cause of this active rust is from leaving it wet. There's a lot of really bad advice on cleaning rust like using steel wool or flitz which is way too much work and will change the finish of the knife. This will make it seem like it's even more of a pain in the *** than it is. What you use is "Bar keepers Friend" powder, it's in the grocery store usually by the comet cleaner powder. The active ingredient is oxalic acid, you apply the powder wet a paper towel or sponge and the rest comes off with very light scrubbing.

To keep something from actively rusting I recommend "edci" which is a green fluid and comes in a little spray bottle. I use it to keep knives from rusting in my shop.



Finally so I can lean more why would someone chose 15v over S90V? They are booth around the same toughness, have about the same edge retention but 15v is not stainless.

Toughness relates more to shock resistance, resistance to cracking and breaking from impact.

There are a few other factors that relate to chipping resistance of the actual edge, of course these carbides in all steels are brittle hard particles and are not doing pure edge stability any favors maxing those particles out but you would be very surprised at the performance in real world use. Some people give the impression it will instantly explode if it makes contact with something hard. It is important however to be honest with yourself and use a thicker edge angle if needed if you like to swing your knife at stuff with reckless abandon.



15V can run harder, apexes better and has more edge stability and cutting retention in my experience.

15v has a balance in properties between k390 and Maxamet

S90V will not cut as long but will be less prone to staining and rusting
The S90V edge doesn't come up as aggressive as the 15v either.

S90v is definitely one of the nicer high wear stainless steels and Spyderco did a very good job on the heat treatment with the yojumbo.

Both are enjoyable.



You will get the best results using diamond/cBN type abrasives from 40um or 10um range to apex with, SiC (Silicon Carbide) will work better than AlOx (Aluminum Oxide) if you need to use a sub $20 Stone.

Stropping after deburring with a diamond compound will greatly enhance the experience for blending a mix of push cutting and draw cutting performance.


Thank you again for all the inform and always speak candidly it helps people like me lean. I don’t think you will ever offend anyone if your not rude and if you do, it’s their issue to get over it.

[Bemo]

Thanks Sean for all you do. And I really appreciate how you always take the time to help educate us.

[R100]

6" 300grit Ultra Sharp diamond plate. $35. 1um diamond paste on a paint stick. You're on your way.
[/quote]

Exactly this. If you are going to actually use it and can get past not having a perfectly even bevel then a diamond or CBN stone followed by brief stropping will get you a hair whittling edge on high carbide steels. You don't need a high dollar guided system and it won't be any use to you once you are away from home anyway. My main sharpening tools are a DMT coarse bench stone at home and a Spyderco Doublestuff 2 or DMT coarse/fine diafold in the field. For the strop I just use a piece of old leather belt loaded with 1 micron diamond paste. This works perfectly with S110V, S90V and K390. I am confident it will be good for 15V as well.

For me, the 15V Manix with BBB heat treat is the stand out offering from the latest reveal. I used to think I was after toughness but Shaun has convinced me that what I really want is edge stability.

Dan

[Deadboxhero]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90520&hilit=Sharpening+burr

This is the most important thread you can read for understanding how to sharpen CPM 15V

You'll notice the principles are the same as sharpening other steels you just use diamond/cBN abrasives.

[SRT392HEMI]

I’m on the fence , I would have liked a black blade and scales appear to be same color as M390 ? Definitely glad to see another Manix ! MG2

Beat me to it. I thought the brown scales were unique to the M390?

[WilliamMunny]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90520&hilit=Sharpening+burr

This is the most important thread you can read for understanding how to sharpen CPM 15V

You'll notice the principles are the same as sharpening other steels you just use diamond/cBN abrasives.

Awesome pictures to illustrate how to sharpen a knife. Thanks for highlighting this thread again.

[mpc2]

Sorry Mr. Houston, and Spyderco, but your knife seems to be trash.

[Evil D]

Sorry Mr. Houston, and Spyderco, but your knife seems to be trash.

This is why knives these days are overbuilt and most don't slice anywhere near as good as they could. Companies have to idiot proof their designs.

[vivi]

Sorry Mr. Houston, and Spyderco, but your knife seems to be trash.

This is why knives these days are overbuilt and most don't slice anywhere near as good as they could. Companies have to idiot proof their designs.

$5 kiwi knives will cut circles around most popular knives, haha.

[WilliamMunny]

Sorry Mr. Houston, and Spyderco, but your knife seems to be trash.

This is why knives these days are overbuilt and most don't slice anywhere near as good as they could. Companies have to idiot proof their designs.

That was a pretty silly review (on a knife not released yet), even I can see that but its a good example of all the information out there that you need to figure out what is valid and what is not.

I do think there is some place for an idiot proof design. There is more than enough demand for a knife that is chip resistant when you try to cut wire or hit a hard surface, the tip wont break when used like a screw driver, opens a box and is easy to sharpen with a $10 pull sharpener.