Tough and Economical Carbon Steel for the Value Folder Lineup?

[Wartstein]

The vast majority of the people buying the value folders would rush carbon steels to death in short order and then complain about it.
...

They would rust such steels immediately in many cases indeed, and then complain... though in my book the blades would just look nicely used then and not be impaired functionally speaking (except that that sharpness is impaired by corrosion too if the knife does not get used frequently).
But I agree: This is not how most people and certainly not how the "general market" sees it...

[Toucan]

I used to think carbon steel had some advantages. Larrin’s summary of edge retention of all those steels has really made me question that.

There is some advantages — I can buy 1095 and O-1 easily, and I can heat treat it in my garage. And it’s cheap. But in a production knife I don’t see it except as a cost savings on large fixed blades.

52100 has worse edge retention than 8CrMoV13. Why would we want that in a budget knife? Most owners won’t ever sharpen it and will let it rust, worsening the edge retention even further.

Do you mean all carbon steel or older tool/spring/bearing steels? I think Larrin has been pretty enthusiastic about more modern carbon steels like K390 and M4.

As for the purpose of older ones, there are indeed a lot of drawbacks. But, I do really like the toughness a lot of them can provide. It's hard to match in the stainless realm outside of maybe AEB-L or speacialty steels like H1. That's not always necessary, and I have had some really terrible carbon steel that deformed so easy it almost seemed gooey. Beyond that, I do like the edge they take. Often it seems less toothy and more precise. They're also a joy to sharpen. It's just so easy. The fine grained ones never get that "glancing" feeling on whet stones.

To sum it up I guess, cheap, tough, easy and fun to sharpen. Admittedly all somewhat niche needs.

[Doc Dan]

I wonder if the Chinese have something like 13C26 or 14C28N? Those are very tough, as tough as 52100, but they are stainless. I have never heard that they did, but it is possible. And then, is it cheaper?

[Baron Mind]

14c28n or bd1n would be my suggestion for the value line.

They're more well rounded steels, but carbon steels are still a lot of fun, and could still make sense.

52100 still being held as a sprint worthy steel, I'd doubt we'd see that. But something like 1095 or sk5 would still be cool, and preferable over something like 8cr.

Back to stainless, I'd take aus8 over 8cr, as the Japanese steel seems to perform better than the Chinese version. I'd even take aus8 over bd1 if there was a price reduction. Aus10 is another option

[araneae]

Read some budget D2 knife reviews on Amazon. You almost always find some one complaining it rusted... They would probably be happier with 420J2.

[Toucan]

I mentioned this to Sal on a similar post I made about Byrd knives, but I found out the Chinese equivalent to 52100 is called GCr15.

[metaphoricalsimile]

I wonder if the Chinese have something like 13C26 or 14C28N? Those are very tough, as tough as 52100, but they are stainless. I have never heard that they did, but it is possible. And then, is it cheaper?

14c28n is basically the perfect budget knife steel for exactly what OP is asking for: good-enough edge retention (better than simple carbon steels), tough, and stainless-enough to be low maintenance for 99% of working people. Also, there are multiple chinese companies making good knives in 14c28n. For one reason or another Spyderco doesn't seem to be able to get a consistent supply of it for their chinese knives, is my understanding for why they aren't using it.

[JRinFL]

I wonder if the Chinese have something like 13C26 or 14C28N? Those are very tough, as tough as 52100, but they are stainless. I have never heard that they did, but it is possible. And then, is it cheaper?

14c28n is basically the perfect budget knife steel for exactly what OP is asking for: good-enough edge retention (better than simple carbon steels), tough, and stainless-enough to be low maintenance for 99% of working people. Also, there are multiple chinese companies making good knives in 14c28n. For one reason or another Spyderco doesn't seem to be able to get a consistent supply of it for their chinese knives, is my understanding for why they aren't using it.

Agreed. I used to push AEB-L as the substitute for 52100, however 14c28n is considered an improvement over AEB-L while losing only a little toughness.

[sal]

We've been using 12C27 for the Grasshopper for a few years. We recently established a relationship with B.U. so you will see more of their steels down the pike.

Hey Toucan,

If I were to try GCr15 in China, I'd probably try it with the Polestar.

sal

[Cl1ff]

I think I’d be interested in 14c28n and 52100, or equivalent, Spydercos.

[Bemo]

Polestar and Alcyone are such great designs, maybe some steel options will help them become more popular. Love the idea. But would love to see 14C28N become more widespread. Really good news.

[Doc Dan]

I'm certainly not familiar with GCr15. It looks to be pretty stainless, but I don't know how tough it is or how good the edge retention is. Anyone know anything about it?

[sal]

Hi Doc,

I don't think it's stainless. Specs say Chinese 52100.

sal

[Stuart Ackerman]

GCr15 is the equivalent of 52100...

https://www.theworldmaterial.com/gcr15-bearing-steel/

[Toucan]

We've been using 12C27 for the Grasshopper for a few years. We recently established a relationship with B.U. so you will see more of their steels down the pike.

Hey Toucan,

If I were to try GCr15 in China, I'd probably try it with the Polestar.

sal

Sal, that would be awesome. I really like the Polestar -- it seems somewhere between a Tenacious and a Raven in all the right ways. I was happy to see it get the BD1N treatment, but also sad to see it lose that funky G10. Getting it in a funky steel like GCR15 would make it that much more awesome.

I know it the past it was not a great seller, but if a version came out in an oddball steel, I bet that would get a lot of otherwise unaware people curious about the model. I know GCr15 is not a "rational" choice, and others have suggested much more sensible steels. I still think 52100 is really "fun" in a way that more sensible steels aren't.

Should a GCr15 variant come out, I'd take at least 3. One for me, my wife, and a third for safe keeping.

I know for now this is all just a possibility, but I am very excited!

[Toucan]

I'm certainly not familiar with GCr15. It looks to be pretty stainless, but I don't know how tough it is or how good the edge retention is. Anyone know anything about it?

It's only about 1.5% chromium, which I assume is the "Cr15" part. No idea what the "G" is about. As others have said, it is analogous to 52100, but in practice, I have never owned a knife made with it.

[Doc Dan]

Thanks! I'd never heard of it. One site I saw had it with a lot of Cr, or I misread it. Nice to have clarification. I like 52100, but in practice I think I'd rather have AEB-L or 14C28N. I have knives in both of those steels and they do alright. No issues, so far.