H1 goodness

[vivi]

I might not be the best person to ask about toughness specifically, because I rarely see my edges suffer any sort of damage.

I do agree that while H1 is tough, it is soft and can roll and deform easily in general. Even so, I do not have edge durability issues in either PE or SE.

I not completely sure why H1 can dull so rapidly at times. I always felt like a PE H1 knife taken to a high polish would have an amazing edge, but lose it quite fast. Maybe it was rolling I experienced, maybe something else. Not 100% sure.

What I do know is without much effort, a polished, atom splitting sharp PE H1 knife would get a slick feeling apex I could slice against my arm without breaking my skin.

It's been a while since I used my loupe, but I remember seeing smooth, blunt apexes when I checked out a used, high polish H1 edge. When I looked at a used coarse edge, I still saw some deformation, but I also saw the mini-serrations were still in tact.

So it seems to work a lot like a true serrated edge, in that you can dull the apex and the teeth will still rip materials apart.

You might be on to something with the apex being thicker with a coarser finush, and therefore more durable. That's an interesting thought.

[FK]

I carried a serrated H1 salt 2 daily when I lived in southern Florida. However, it seemed the PE portion of that knife's tip was perpetually dull. If I cut anything more than tape, the razor sharpness (achieved with the sharpmaker brown medium stones) would disappear almost instantly along the PE portion. The serrated section always held up just fine. Having a perpetually dull PE tip forced me to switch to a para 3 lw s90v -- only carrying the salt when I'd be in and around saltwater.

I decided to take some advice given here and put a super coarse edge on the salt using CBN --> sharpmaker fine --> and then a .5 micron strop. The difference in edge holding is somewhat staggering. I'd estimate at least a factor of 3 or more improvement on the PE portion (which now slowly loses its razor edge bite) and the serrated section is still as sharp as ever. I wish I had done this sooner. I also applied the same edge to an s45vn mule in the kitchen and noticed superior edge holding with less rolling. I'm not entirely sure why that is though and would appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts. Is it only in my head? It could be that less force is used against a cutting board because the edge cuts more aggressively. My first guess was that the average thickness at the edge is actually thicker with a coarse edge than with a semi-polished edge making it more durable but with less edge retention. However, the coarse edge effectively adds serrations to add cutting aggression that would normally have been lost with the thicker edge. Yet, the edge angle between the semi-polished finish and coarse finish is the same so I'm not yet convinced.

This is nothing new,,,, it was well documented and posted by Cliff Stamp and Wayne Goddard many years ago. The old timers with carbon steel knives used coarse oil stones and then refined the edge on boot leather or dirty jeans.

Try it on ho-hum VG-10,,, totally transformed my opinion for this steel.

Regards,
FK

[vivi]

Yep, Cliff had been mentioning this for decades. It can transform how just about any steel performs, whether a soft 1095 knife or a really hard K390 blade.

High polish blades are fun to use once in a while, but for any knife of mine that will see a lot of work, I use a coarser finish. Even my chef knife I use daily on the job.

[dlum1]

I checked the s45vn mule that resides in the kitchen and had a coarse edge placed on it a few weeks ago. There's significant rolling at the edge (with quite a few reflections coming from the apex). The reflective / rolled sections are no longer razor sharp but are still quite aggressive. I didn't bother to try and sharpen the blade since it could slice just fine. That likely rules out any additional durability at the edge. It looks like the edge has just enough aggression to overcome some light rolling. I checked my h1 salt and while it had no obvious rolling, it was no longer shaving sharp -- just aggressive. A few swipes on a leather strop and it could easily shave again. I'm going hiking this weekend and the h1 pacific salt will likely be coming along.

It's interesting that Cliff had been advocating this for many years and that we had to rediscover it. I suppose it's because we rarely look to the literature (assuming there is a well known source?) to accomplish something as 'trivial' as sharpening a knife. There's a reason professional sharpeners exist as the skill and knowledge of materials, grits, angles, edge types... etc. can be steep learning curve once we look a little deeper.

[vivi]

I think I was influenced by how popular the high polished edge bevel is on any knife forum. You look around here, bladeforums, reddit, instagram etc. and you typically only see factory edges or high polish edges. It's pretty rare to see someone post a very coarse edge.

Plus the first time I used a genuinely hair whittling sharp 2,000+ grit edge, it impressed the **** out of me. Totally different feel than the dull knives most are used to. I kept chasing that feel for years, and it wasn't until I got fed up with the edge retention of PE H1 that I decided to experiment.

I can still remember a time I thought going from the ultrafine sharpmaker stones to the mediums was putting a seriously coarse finish on my knives.

As far as apex performance goes I know my coarse edges still get blunted, but the microserrations allow them to continue to cut.

If I have a knife sharpened to 8,000 grit and it loses all scrape shaving ability through use, it's pretty worthless. The edge will feel smooth if I run it over my skin and it will slip on poly rope and tomatoes more than it will cut.

Coarse edges on the other hand continue to have months worth of slicing aggression past the point of losing all shaving ability.

Graphed out the coarse edge would show a steady, gradual decline, while the polish edge would score high initially, then have a massive performance drop after 20% or so.

[skeeg11]

Kinda funny that we all take this for granted, yet when Cliff first postulated this, he got all kinds of grief initially. May he rest in peace.

[40mm]

I Love H1. :)
Untitled by Six Pound Cat, on Flickr

[Manixguy@1994]

Thanks for all of your help vivi and hope you had a great birthday . MG2