Handle foreward Native 5

[Bemo]

Interesting Kevin.

[Netherend]

The native 5 is the best knife ergonomically that I have ever handled.(for my hands ). If the choil is removed from the native 5, then I would hope that the handle length would increase. I feel like short handles and steep thumb ramps may make for a cramped feeling knife.

Handle space seems to be an afterthought with many small knives and it is a shame because it makes the knife harder to use and less comfortable to hold . I do not own one (yet) but the dragonfly seems to have the right idea. The handle is curved so it appears shorter but it looks long enough to get a good hold on the knife .
I was recently looking at pictures of the dfly next to bugouts, delicas and natives. The native choil is useful for precise cutting but it is not always necessary. The straight thumb ramp helps make the knife feel less cramped .

The native 5 is a great knife and I am excited to see the direction it takes in the future . I am still waiting on the G10 natives to come back in stock . Demand must be high for them because their price jumped to $180 while the para 3 stayed at around $160. I am curious to see how the g10 feels in hand. The bi directional FRN on the native 5 salt is incredibly grippy and it is pretty hard to beat. From what I have read on these forums, I may be in the minority with my opinion that the native 5 bi directional frn is better than the seki salts frn. It’s grippier and feels harder than the delica salt and Atlantic salt . I feel more confident that I will not slip with the native 5 than I do with any other frn I have held . I would love to see that kind of grip on the LW para 3, though it is not necessary.

I apologize for the long winded response filled with tangents. I love the native 5 and am excited to see what designed Sal has up his sleeve .

[Josh Crutchley]

This is just my opinion, but if the handle were brought foreward and the finger guard as well, doing away with the choil, and a full three inch blade sticking out of the handle, with a full cutting edge, I think we'd have a winner.

What do you think? Top and bottom are styled after the Rockjumper and the middle is based on the Native 1 with a little RJ. Really curious how Sal would go about it.

[PocketShredder]

This is just my opinion, but if the handle were brought foreward and the finger guard as well, doing away with the choil, and a full three inch blade sticking out of the handle, with a full cutting edge, I think we'd have a winner.

What do you think? Top and bottom are styled after the Rockjumper and the middle is based on the Native 1 with a little RJ. Really curious how Sal would go about it.

Very cool. I would definitely buy something like this. Looks sort of like a folding Enuff (leaf shape).

[Matus]

Basically the solution could well be Rockjumper with a leaf blade. No need to call it Native Something.

[Josh Crutchley]

Very cool. I would definitely buy something like this. Looks sort of like a folding Enuff (leaf shape).

Thank you!

Basically the solution could well be Rockjumper with a leaf blade. No need to call it Native Something.

I believe your right, I've been carrying the Wharnie Rockjumper the past few days and have been thoroughly impressed. I imagine the Leaf blade RJ would be perfect, hopefully it gets multiple steels like the Native.

[Matus]

I am a little relieved, I was worried that I am going to get a blue eye for that comment

[Josh Crutchley]

My final proposal for the HF Native. The blade is 80mm/3.15" with a 78mm/3" cutting edge and has a 104mm/4.1" closed length. I'm not sure we need it with the Rockjumper but I don't think the RJ will see all the different sprints/steels the Native family gets.

[Evil D]

My final proposal for the HF Native. The blade is 80mm/3.15" with a 78mm/3" cutting edge and has a 104mm/4.1" closed length. I'm not sure we need it with the Rockjumper but I don't think the RJ will see all the different sprints/steels the Native family gets.

That little dip is my only issue, that's a snag point. The magic of the handle forward concept (or at least for me a big part of it) is getting the edge as close to the grip as possible and eliminating any place where material can get caught up during a cut. I would either tuck the whole tang/ricasso back under the handle to meet the plunge line or bring the handle forward to that point.




A Caribbean for example, you can push the blade all the way into something and the material can bottom out against the handle, and the handle will act as a guide and the material has no choice but to stay on the edge because there's just no other place for it to be unless it moves up onto the handle itself but my hand is there stopping that from happening.






So, maybe just my way of thinking but the handle forward thing is a lot more than just doing away with a choil or a ricasso. There is a major advantage potential here if done right.

[Josh Crutchley]

So, maybe just my way of thinking but the handle forward thing is a lot more than just doing away with a choil or a ricasso. There is a major advantage potential here if done right.

Why didn't you say so? How about this?

[Evil D]

So, maybe just my way of thinking but the handle forward thing is a lot more than just doing away with a choil or a ricasso. There is a major advantage potential here if done right.

Why didn't you say so? How about this?

There ya go, that's more like it.

[ZrowsN1s]

As long as I can disengage the back lock and swing the blade halfway closed and stop it with my index finger without getting cut, I support this idea. They managed this with the rock jumper so I'm sure they could here. No finger biters.

[Doc Dan]

This is just my opinion, but if the handle were brought foreward and the finger guard as well, doing away with the choil, and a full three inch blade sticking out of the handle, with a full cutting edge, I think we'd have a winner.

What do you think? Top and bottom are styled after the Rockjumper and the middle is based on the Native 1 with a little RJ. Really curious how Sal would go about it.

I like 1 and 3 as they are less finger confining. However, the handle needs to cover the kick as Evil D said.

[Matus]

Really nice work on the 3D model Josh. If I may be so bold, I would like to mention 2 points:

(A) This point has a very large potential to become a hot spot depending on the hand size. Native Chief has only a hump here, but since it has pretty sharp corner it felt like a hot spot for me (this was even more pronounced with the Tuff - main reason why I sold mine). I know that this kind of shape would fit the Native family, but actually a continuous curve like on Para3 or PM2 gives a more neutral grip. Also Urban has a great handle shape in this regard (just obviously on the small side)

(B) One downside (again, as found on the Chief) is the handle actually getting narrower towards the end - decreases the feel of secure grip for me (I have skinny , but normal size hands, so tend to prefer a little more hand-filling handles) - especially on the pull cuts. Again - just to mention an example - the way the PM2 handle widens towards the butt gives a very secure grip.

[Woodpuppy]

Looks like a Shaman!

[Evil D]

Looks like a Shaman!

Sal has mentioned a non choil Shaman design.

This design is also surprisingly similar to a couple sketches I've done myself, only smaller than what I have in mind.

[toocool006]

I would buy multiples of every variant of this design released. You are reading my dreams and putting them into 3d models. I think I am in love :

Let's keep the drumbeat going and get Sal and Eric on board!

[Gtscotty]

Visually it looks good, but I think closing one handed the way I normally do a Native or Delica/Endela/Endura. Could be a little dicey.... finger slicey dicey.

[toocool006]

You'd have to remember to keep your index finger far forward to catch the kick, but the way it's laid out I wouldn't think it would be a problem once you got the muscle memory down. I once got nicked by my pac salt and learned that lesson quick!

[Bemo]

Love the design. I will point out that the RJ and the Alcyone (it borrows elements of handle forward but I don't think Sal considers it a true handle forward design) do not have the blade as set into the handle as Evil D proposes and as demonstrated on the Caribbean. But I like it. And this design would have a shot at being made in Golden to the same quality as the Shaman and Native, unlike the RJ which will be Seki City.