every time i use it to break down boxes, it makes me think we're all a bunch of morons for talking about how long our pocket knives last cutting cardboard. the utility knife is far superior at handling the task, far cheaper to purchase, and has cheap replacement blades.
LOL well said! Like Dr. Thomas says, geometry is #1. It's hard to beat a ute blade for slicy-ness.
Interesting (if old) factoid: 11.2 Million construction employees (2018) in the USA.
I was thinking of the Spyderco Ute as bringing in a different consumer segment, the contractors and construction workers and warehouse employees who use ute knives daily. On this forum, some like the idea, some don't, but this forum doesn't represent ute users as much as it does fine-cutlery afi's. So if we are determining like/don't-like on this forum, I'd propose we're sampling the wrong sub-population.
I'm surprised so many people are against the idea of a quality utility knife. I suppose this forum isn't often an accurate representation of the general knife community, so maybe there is still hope :)
I would not say against exactly. As much as lack of demand and trying to compete in a market with scores of quality utility knife makers such as Stanley. And utility knives are cheap for a reason. They are considered disposable and built as such. Heck my $12 Husky 2 pack I consider a good knife for beater and rough use.
I have to disagree with your opinion that the people in this forum do not represent the general knife community. I consider the people in this forum a strong representation and part of the general knife community. And apparently so does Spyderco and Sal Glesser. Since they built this forum for customers input.
Just looking at the feedback in this thread, I'd say alot of people have no interest in this proposal. Many are saying they are fine with the current cheap, disposable knives found at hardware stores. But they don't have to be cheap, disposable, lower quality knives. They could be made to the same quality as Spyderco or other quality brands. There are other higher quality options, but I hope to see one from Spyderco someday. Again, there are people buying them, so there is a market for it.
Looking at this forum, there are, more often than not, trends and opinions that differ from what is typically found in groups on other social media outlets. For example, try to voice a pro-SE opinion anywhere but this forum and nine times out of ten, nearly everyone will just say you're ignorant and don't know how to sharpen PE. It is what it is, but this forum has a different following, not to say there aren't any similarities or things we all agree on in the community. Things are just a bit different here. Not wrong, just different.
Perhaps Sal will chime in on this. I would like to hear his thoughts. I am not against it. I just don't see the profitability in it.
Love this idea. Currently use a Milwakee Fastback, which may be the most like a pocket folding knife from a major brand: wire clip, button lock, flips out. Add a Spyder hole and Spyderco quality, and I'd be all over it.
I still believe there is a market, though I don't know how big it would be.
To those who say Spyderco can't (more likely won't) compete with Husky, Olfa, Stanley etc... You are correct. They shouldn't. If they were to make a $12 ute I would be LESS inclined to buy it, because it wouldn't likely have the qualities that make a Spydie a Spydie.
Completely unrelated... I have a $130 Tactile Turn bolt action pen with a $2 Pilot G2 refill in it. I like the quality pen and the cheap disposable refill. Hmmm almost sounds familiar, maybe it wasn't completely unrelated after all...
Personally I've used my Spyderco Stainless handled RESCUE model ( late 90s, era) as a utility knife for almost 8 years off and on. Over the years I've done some extremely brutal work with that folder and it just keeps on performing. And I've yet to be challenged with any cutting job that I couldn't handle with that tank of a folder.
I still rank my Stainless handled, ATS-55 RESCUE model as one of the most indestructible folders I've ever owned or used. Even if Spyderco made a Utility type knife I would probably just stick to what I've been using. Unless I were to move someplace that has draconian knife laws which would prohibit me from carrying such a knife.
But on the other hand it probably would be a great move for Spyderco to compete in that market sector>> because I'm sure their name recognition alone would sell several units for them.
Agree 100%, I purchased from the big auction site,,, two Endura 3 SE knives with 1/8" off broken tips for a really low cost. These are the older ATS-55 steel with full serrated blades. Ground the tips down smooth and now have two rugged all purpose utility knives that will last me for many years.
Interesting conversation with my general contractor today. He threw a (closed) Milwaukee ute knife across the table to me and said,
"Broke another one. If you can fix it, maybe you can use it. I buy these by the dozen and use them until they stop working. This one, the blade retention went bad. Typical. Be careful, the retention may fail on you, even after a fix."
I have also experienced blades falling out of various brands of utility knives recently, and each time this happens to me, I wish I owned a quality utility knife with a decent blade retention mechanism. And round opening hole. And a decent lock. And a bias to close. And... well, you get the idea.
I've not tried those Milwaukees yet; everyone seems to like them, for what they are. I typically carry a Slidewinder, holding me over til I splurge on a Spectrum Energetics Utilizer or something similar.
Even though I’m kind of in favor of this idea now after using CS’s take on it, I still think there is a giant uphill battle in convincing tradespeople that Utility knives are not disposable products.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
I’m not a fan of the Milwaukee utility knives. They’re cheap and have problems. The metal seems to be extremely cheap MIM and the overall execution just feels lacking.
I have an ergonomic Stanley Bostich double bladed retractable utility knife that is my go to. It’s large but it works very well.
I still believe there is a market, though I don't know how big it would be.
To those who say Spyderco can't (more likely won't) compete with Husky, Olfa, Stanley etc... You are correct. They shouldn't. If they were to make a $12 ute I would be LESS inclined to buy it, because it wouldn't likely have the qualities that make a Spydie a Spydie.
Completely unrelated... I have a $130 Tactile Turn bolt action pen with a $2 Pilot G2 refill in it. I like the quality pen and the cheap disposable refill. Hmmm almost sounds familiar, maybe it wasn't completely unrelated after all...
Cheers
I tend to agree. Look at the market for high end pocket flashlights. There IS a market for very nice, expensive, small items with a practical purpose. (See: gentleman’s folding knives)
Even though I’m kind of in favor of this idea now after using CS’s take on it, I still think there is a giant uphill battle in convincing tradespeople that Utility knives are not disposable products.
Maybe, and I haven't talked to more than a dozen contractors. But of those I have talked to, most are disappointed in folding ute quality and consider them disposable because they fail. These same guys will shell out $$$ or $$$$ for the latest Dewalt, Makita or Milwaukee battery-operated thingamajig and they tend to carry high-end pocket knives, own nice guns, and drive big pickups with luxury packages and custom rims, but honestly, we all carry sub-par folding ute knives because that's pretty much what's available on the shelves.
You see more favorable reviews of the Milwaukee Utes than just about any other ute knife, and even those fail and drop their blades frequently. Not to mention being clumsy to open IMO, and affording basically zero pride of ownership.
My main point here is that contractors (at least in so-cal) definitely have disposable income and they spend big on tools. Often there are comparisons among subs as to whose tool is better. That's why I'm betting an upscale, SOLID folding ute knife has a decent chance of success. These guys spend big on good tools and the bragging rights that go with them. (So do I.)
This concept seemed so unlikely, and even unnecessary that I didn't even bother to read the thread for a very long time. But the thread prevailed, so I got curious.
I think Bolster makes a good point. Disposable tools and disposable blades are two different things, and keeping that in mind, I think there is a potential business case for a high quality, ergonomic, non-disposable blade holder for disposable blades.
Even though I shrug at any product proclaiming to be disposable, one often has to dig deeper to see the full impact with regards to resource utilization and waste handling. As long as the ute knife/handle is of good quality and made to outlast many blades, the blades them selves creates limited amount of waste and although the blade is an alloy it's not a mixed material product in the true sense, so there is a better potential for recycling than say a cheap "disposable" fixed blade with a glued on handle material.
As I understand from the conversation, there are even some that suggest Spyderco should make their own (proprietary) blades to even further improve performance. This business case is not at all as obvious to me.
I'm not a trades man with regular cutting needs, so I don't have first hand knowledge on their habits, but there's obviously a huge target demographic to such a product. In such a huge demographic there ought to be enough diversity of priorities that even the unknown percentage that want's US/non PRC made tool and/or want's to be resource responsible with quality over quantity, should almost certainly be a high enough number to make a business case.
A problem one would face in Nordic countries, and maybe Europe as a whole, is that there is almost no culture for workers to choose suppliers or what specific model of tools they can pick. And even less culture for "bring your own tools". The advantages of a quality UTE might be visible to the worker, but that doesn't do any good if the purchaser sourcing the company's tools doesn't see this advantage.
Currently I use the Gerber prybrid for my personal construction type work, but even at my hobbyist level I could make a case for a decent UTE if the price isn't too astronomical.
The prybrid has really opened up my eyes to the advantages of disposable blades. It's not like I enjoy throwing away stuff rather than maintaining, and I don't like to use knives for non-knife tasks, but sometimes you have to, and I rather dispose of a messed up utility blade then ruining a whole knife.
It's proven so useful that I even consider adding a small ute knife to my EDC. That's saying something, I don't easily add stuff to my EDC.
I had another contractor hand me a dead Milwaukee utility knife, which I fixed for him (I'm getting a reputation as 'Ute Fixer'). I know that Milwaukee is considered the gold standard by many, and 'exhibit A' as to why Spyderco shouldn't get into the game, because Milwaukee is already so good.
But it's not. These utes stop working all the time. Look at why. They are so cheaply made. These two little bent pieces of metal act as springs, and when they clog with drywall dust, or just relax over time (have seen both, plenty of times) the knife stops retaining the blade. Honestly, just a positive solid blade retention method would be a huge improvement. I fixed this knife, but...for how long? It will fail again due to its construction.
The second huge improvement would be a closing bias and a blade that does NOT lock closed. It's really irritating when you're on a ladder and have one hand to grab your knife, and it's locked closed (like all the Milwaukees do). Why should I have to push a button to unlock my knife from the closed position?
If Spyderco ever takes on this project, I'd be one of the first in line to buy one.
I've been putting some thought into making my own fixed blade or friction folder utility knife. I certainly don't have the skill to make it look professional, but I could probably make a functioning knife.
I too am surprised that this thread is still in motion. SSSsssooooo for the sake of conversation;
I believe the current offerings are all made in China. A ute made anywhere else will cost at least 4 times as much based on the Yuan/dollar value. That's why they're all made in China. I\Peer and I looked at the Milwaukee and felt it was a reasonable performer. Though you are saying that it is not holding up. That's another story.
What are all of the "features" do you think that this tool should have? Size, weight, materials and anything that you think/feel might make it a better tool? Use your "drafty brain" (open mind).
Were do you think it should be made?
"Talkin' Story":
Back in the early '80;s, I invented/designed a sharpener for these disposable blades. It looked and operated like a "drag through", but the mechanics inside provide a proper edge. We learned that the factories weren't interested because they felt they would sell fewer blades. The distributors and dealers were also not interested for the same reason. Thoughts to ponder?
I planned to made the disposable blades serrated. We had little horsepower back then and ended up backing off.
In order to be successful, the product would really have to be significantly better. I think we would have to make it in China, but we control design and materials and our makers appreciate the fact that we want them to be good performers, rather than "cheap Chinese junk".
