Police 4 questions

[Alan99]

I recently upgraded my personal carry knife from a G10 scales police 3 to an FRN police 4 lightweight. I really like the large blade. My only concern is that the police 3 has the Boyd dent in the lock to help prevent releasing the lock when gripped tightly but the police 4 does not. I was hope that someone could tell me why?

Thank you.

[TenGrainBread]

Spyderco has found that with most of their current lockback knives it is actually pretty difficult to accidentally unlock while gripping, a product of tweaking the shape of the scale cutout. So Sal has stated it's not an issue of function or safety but rather consumer preference. Implementing the boye dent does add another step in manufacturing so if it doesn't affect sales or safety then it makes sense to not do it.

[yablanowitz]

That and Spyderco has been designing and engineering their locks with an eye toward eliminating the need for the Boye dent since about the time they implemented it. I view the dent as a stopgap measure to address a perceived problem until it could be eliminated.

[Alan99]

thank you both. so I better understand, can someone please give me a laymans explanation of what has changed in the lock? Is it stronger? It seems the same. But I did not disasemble either knife.

[sal]

Hi Alan,

Welcome to our forum.

Some years ago, it was called to my attention, by Bob Taylor and Mike Janich, that some of our models, if held a certain way, could compromise the lock with the fleshy part of the hand pushing down on the lock bar. We implemented he Boye dent, with permission from David Boye to alleviate this issue.

As we continued to study the issue, we learned that the shape an size of the lock-well opening in the handle was the culprit. By reducing the size of the lock-well, we could eliminate the problem. We experimented with a few models using the new shape lock-well and it worked, so we eliminated the dent.

Though now, we are getting comments that some preferred the dent as an indexing point for the lock.

sal

[Alan99]

Sir, thank you for taking the time to monitor this forum and respond to customer questions. I want you to know that I prefer the FRN to the G-10 because of the FRN texture, it is easy to keep a good grip on when cold or wet or oil is on the hands. I have had an endura 4 and delica 4 with a similar FRN texture for some time.

Love your product line. I’m one of those who will most certainly buy a C-60 Ayoob when available irrespective of the type of scales.

[Ez556]

The benefit I find with the dent is for indexing.

[vivi]

Sir, thank you for taking the time to monitor this forum and respond to customer questions. I want you to know that I prefer the FRN to the G-10 because of the FRN texture, it is easy to keep a good grip on when cold or wet or oil is on the hands. I have had an endura 4 and delica 4 with a similar FRN texture for some time.

Love your product line. I’m one of those who will most certainly buy a C-60 Ayoob when available irrespective of the type of scales.

You've got some great taste in knives! The Police 4 in FRN is one of my favorites too, and in my eyes one of the best folders ever made.

If you haven't looked into it, make sure you check out the K390 version - https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... -K390/1907 K390, while it will rust more easily than VG10, it will hold an edge about 3 or 4 times as long!

[Deadboxhero]

Police 4 seems easier to disengage the lock without the detent since the thumb doesn't have to push the bar in as far.

[VooDooChild]

I think the boye dent can make it easier to disengage the lock but it depends on the knife.

I dont think any of my Golden backlocks need one. The Golden backlocks just work perfectly as is. However I would prefer the seki backlocks had a boye dent.

Police 4 seems easier to disengage the lock without the detent since the thumb doesn't have to push the bar in as far.

I feel the opposite. I cant help but feel every time I disengage my police 4 that I would prefer it to have the boye dent. My police 4 lightweight isnt too bad, but the pakkawood police 4 is not enjoyable to disengage the lock.

[MFlovejp]

My police models drop so nicely that I don’t miss the dent. I like the dent, but I don’t need the dent.

[sal]

Product development at Spyderco is always a work in progress, always leaning towards better function. We're always looking for ways to make our products better. That's why feedback is so important.

sal

[Deadboxhero]

I think the boye dent can make it easier to disengage the lock but it depends on the knife.

I dont think any of my Golden backlocks need one. The Golden backlocks just work perfectly as is. However I would prefer the seki backlocks had a boye dent.

Police 4 seems easier to disengage the lock without the detent since the thumb doesn't have to push the bar in as far.

I feel the opposite. I cant help but feel every time I disengage my police 4 that I would prefer it to have the boye dent. My police 4 lightweight isnt too bad, but the pakkawood police 4 is not enjoyable to disengage the lock.

I'd say at first I missed it, but after rotating the P4 and the Endura in my carry rotation I liked that I didn't have to physically push the lock bar as far into the handle to disengage the lock, so it seemed to create less pressure on my danty lil thumb.

I like what Sal said about it being an index thing, I agree.

I've carried my P4 since 2017.

It's in my pocket right now, nice and broken in, lil worn up too. Killer knife.

[Alan99]

Sir, thank you for taking the time to monitor this forum and respond to customer questions. I want you to know that I prefer the FRN to the G-10 because of the FRN texture, it is easy to keep a good grip on when cold or wet or oil is on the hands. I have had an endura 4 and delica 4 with a similar FRN texture for some time.

Love your product line. I’m one of those who will most certainly buy a C-60 Ayoob when available irrespective of the type of scales.

You've got some great taste in knives! The Police 4 in FRN is one of my favorites too, and in my eyes one of the best folders ever made.

If you haven't looked into it, make sure you check out the K390 version - https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... -K390/1907 K390, while it will rust more easily than VG10, it will hold an edge about 3 or 4 times as long!

I purchased the VG - 10 because my police 3 and endura are VG -10 and I have had good service from them. I am a working police officer, out in rain, snow, hot humid weather, cold and dry weather and need the corrosion resistance of the VG-10. I also have an older endura that is ATS -55 and has also served me well.

[vivi]

I can go either way with dents. Doesn't bother me in my Pacific Salt, but I don't miss it in my Chief and Police 4.

I used to prefer them for indexing, but I've become accustomed to feeling to the lock release recess in the scales instead.

[derangedhermit]

I can go either way with dents. Doesn't bother me in my Pacific Salt, but I don't miss it in my Chief and Police 4.

I used to prefer them for indexing, but I've become accustomed to feeling to the lock release recess in the scales instead.

I agree. Either way is fine, and I don't think either one is inherently easier or safer. The cutout in the scales lets me find the lock release, with or without the dent. Given equal spring strength and geometry and lockbar (?) width, I find with dent is more comfortable on the thumb.

I just did a comfort test:
Most comfortable: Native 5, Native Chief (tie)
Middle: Endura 4
Least comfortable: Police 4, RockJumper

The Natives may win because the steel is slightly thicker, but I have not checked the specs.
The E4 dent would be more comfortable for my thumb if it was somewhat larger. It looks like a half-dent.

[DougC-3]

Late to the party, but I'll add my vote. I like the Boye dent because I depress the locks with the sides of my thumbs and it's a comfortable fit to the curvature of my first thumb joint. It probably wouldn't make much difference with lightweight models, but the lock is pretty stiff on my G-10 Stretch 2 (has dent) and to a lesser extent on my G-10 Police 4 (no dent). The absence on the Police is not as noticeable now that it's been used (read: opened and closed ) a lot. I agree that it seems unnecessary on the Golden back locks, and I'm not concerned about the SD considerations. All these K390 knives are turning me into a back lock person.

Edit: the dent is certainly not a deal breaker either way.

[ladybug93]

i would agree that indexing is a non-issue. even if you couldn't feel the gap in the frn around the lock, we all use these knives enough that it becomes muscle memory by the time we put it away on the first day.

i have knives with and without. i don't have a preference really.

[Evil D]

Most back locks I've handled are designed so that if my index finger is where it should be to safely drop the blade choil/ricasso onto it, my thumb naturally knows where to go to find the lock. There usually isn't a big difference in that space until you start comparing a Police 4 to a Dragonfly.

[bearfacedkiller]

I am indifferent to the dent. If it adds cost then I would probably do without. If it doesn’t then I don’t care.