Military 2

[JRinFL]

Do we know if the current Military is selling well or not to its target market? If it were not, I would have expected a new model would have replaced it much sooner than now or some undefined time in the future.

[Evil D]

Do we know if the current Military is selling well or not to its target market? If it were not, I would have expected a new model would have replaced it much sooner than now or some undefined time in the future.

I wonder the same. Have to remember we forumites don't represent the whole knife buying market. There are other models I really wonder how they sell enough to stay in the catalog if sales truly are the deciding factor in sticking around, like the Centofante 3 for example although I also suspect that one has as much to do with honoring/remembering Frank Centofante as it does anything else.

[VashHash]

Do we know if the current Military is selling well or not to its target market? If it were not, I would have expected a new model would have replaced it much sooner than now or some undefined time in the future.

Spyderco doesn't base all models on sales. Most are but there are some in the lineup that they believe deserve to be made regardless of sales. I think collaboration models suffer the most when it comes time to cut because of sales. Sal has even stated several knives are "pet" projects that he designs for himself. Again as has been mentioned before the original military is going to stick around even after the comp model is made. I love my military models but the police 4 is just a better fit for me. Carries better and has better ergos for my fat hands. Then again I did carry a military again for a couple weeks and didn't want to take it out.

[JacksonKnives]

Just to keep the name scheme confusing, inspired by all the confusing movie sequel names we love to mock:

Spyderco 4: Private Security Contractor

[Evil D]

Just to keep the name scheme confusing, inspired by all the confusing movie sequel names we love to mock:

Spyderco 4: Private Security Contractor

Spyderco Paramilitary 5 Gas Station Security.


The 5 is because why not just skip 4 altogether and make it as confusing as possible.

[kobold]

Just to keep the name scheme confusing, inspired by all the confusing movie sequel names we love to mock:

Spyderco 4: Private Security Contractor

Spyderco Paramilitary 5 Gas Station Security.


The 5 is because why not just skip 4 altogether and make it as confusing as possible.

Manix II Chi Lambda.

[kobold]

https://youtu.be/AmTcdwWyf9w

[Wartstein]

https://youtu.be/AmTcdwWyf9w

Also Sal did actually say indeed that BOTH a comp. and linerlock Millie would remain in the lineup, should the former ever happen..
But yes, calling it then "Para 4" or "PM2 XL" would make a lot more sense imho...

Seems like I remember reading the same thing about the Paramilitary staying in the lineup too but the Para 2 absolutely crushed it in sales.
...

David, the big difference here for me is: The PM2 kept the comp. lock of the PM "1", and was "just" altered/improved in shape, ergos...

Just changing a "Millie 2" from comp. lock to linerlock would not be an evolution and improvement; The vid Kobold shared pretty much sums up what I think too about liner - vs comp. lock: The latter is cool, but for me inferior on a big, outdoorsy knife like the Millie - in ergos, operation and safety.
(Edit: I actually DON`T share this guys thoughts that "Spyderco puts a comp.lock on many knives just for sales"! But I do think that folders like Kapara, Shaman, Caribbean would be even better knives functionally speaking with a linerlock, and that the Millie would not be improved by a comp.lock]

Plus: There just aren´t many linerlock choices in Spydercos in house higher quality knives, but a lot of comp. locks already.

The Millie really is somewhat defined by its great and most userfriendly lock. Giving it a comp. lock would be no different than switching an Endura from backlock to linerlock, and calling this an improvement / evolution...

[vivi]

I'd give a Military 2 a shot regardless of the lock type.

Going from liner lock to compression lock alone wouldn't really interest me. What would get my attention are other possible changes like a four way clip or deeper index choil.

I'm happy with the current Military - but then again I was happy with the Police 3 and now prefer the 4 in every way.

[Evil D]

https://youtu.be/AmTcdwWyf9w

Also Sal did actually say indeed that BOTH a comp. and linerlock Millie would remain in the lineup, should the former ever happen..
But yes, calling it then "Para 4" or "PM2 XL" would make a lot more sense imho...

Seems like I remember reading the same thing about the Paramilitary staying in the lineup too but the Para 2 absolutely crushed it in sales.
...

David, the big difference here for me is: The PM2 kept the comp. lock of the PM "1", and was "just" altered/improved in shape, ergos...

Just changing a "Millie 2" from comp. lock to linerlock would not be an evolution and improvement; The vid Kobold shared pretty much sums up what I think too about liner - vs comp. lock: The latter is cool, but for me inferior on a big, outdoorsy knife like the Millie - in ergos, operation and safety.

Plus: There just aren´t many linerlock choices in Spydercos in house higher quality knives, but a lot of comp. locks already.

The Millie really is somewhat defined by its great and most userfriendly lock. Giving it a comp. lock would be no different than switching an Endura from backlock to linerlock, and calling this an improvement / evolution...

For the record here I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can and just add to the debate, I actually do prefer the liner lock at least for this knife. With the compression lock I realized it creates a hot spot in my palm during hard use, so for that reason I think I'd just assume it came with a liner lock or even a back lock so the spine of the handle is smooth and easier on my hand. Maybe the button compression lock would be a compromise?

In my perfect world it would come with a Plunge Lock and be an automatic

[prndltech]

In my perfect world it would come with a Plunge Lock and be an automatic

oh **** yeah brother! with no safety!

[Evil D]

In my perfect world it would come with a Plunge Lock and be an automatic

oh **** yeah brother! with no safety!

With knife laws being what they are, I don't even bother trying to push the idea of making more automatic versions of knives. I'm just happy with what I've got.

[vivi]

Not that it'd ever happen, but for a while I've wondered if the CBBL could fit into a Military.

I'm a really big fan of that lock. Great compromise between the smoothness of a comp lock and the self close of a lockback.

[prndltech]

In my perfect world it would come with a Plunge Lock and be an automatic

oh **** yeah brother! with no safety!

With knife laws being what they are, I don't even bother trying to push the idea of making more automatic versions of knives. I'm just happy with what I've got.

I’m with ya. However safety’s/or locks on them are instant no buys for me

[Evil D]

In my perfect world it would come with a Plunge Lock and be an automatic

oh **** yeah brother! with no safety!

With knife laws being what they are, I don't even bother trying to push the idea of making more automatic versions of knives. I'm just happy with what I've got.

I’m with ya. However safety’s/or locks on them are instant no buys for me

They're not too hard to remove :D

[prndltech]

oh **** yeah brother! with no safety!

With knife laws being what they are, I don't even bother trying to push the idea of making more automatic versions of knives. I'm just happy with what I've got.

I’m with ya. However safety’s/or locks on them are instant no buys for me

They're not too hard to remove :D

Yeah I might have to do that

[amateur blacksmith]

Strange how it all went. If the new compression lock knife was called the PM4 or P2 XL as many have indicated everyone would be happy. Military lovers would feel like the Military had not been succeeded or replaced. And there would be a new, and very likely great new kid on the block. Even though I think the compression lock will be a better seller, the liner lock still has it's place and for some people or situations the compression lock model just won't cut it as a replacement.
The new steel, (assuming S30V will be replaced in new stock) when new stock becomes available will breathe some life back into Military sales as well.

[chuck_roxas45]

There's a Military 2 now?

[mark greenman]

Strange how it all went. If the new compression lock knife was called the PM4 or P2 XL as many have indicated everyone would be happy. Military lovers would feel like the Military had not been succeeded or replaced. And there would be a new, and very likely great new kid on the block. Even though I think the compression lock will be a better seller, the liner lock still has it's place and for some people or situations the compression lock model just won't cut it as a replacement.
The new steel, (assuming S30V will be replaced in new stock) when new stock becomes available will breathe some life back into Military sales as well.

I think that will prove a Pyrrhic Victory

The problem naming the Military 2 the 'PM4 / P2XL' is that the regular liner lock Military will likely die off in a few years. And then there would be no 'Military' at all, barring the model simply being kept alive for sentimental reasons like the Centofante 3.

Other then the handful of forumites who are bored with Comp Locks or have some unique aversion to them, the rest of the knife buying public would choose the 'PM4' aka Military 2 (Military with comp lock + 4 way clip) pretty much across the board. Especially since we're also likely to see future blade steels / sprints / aftermarket support focused on the PM4/Military 2 then the legacy Liner Lock Military.

In the effort to 'save the Military' by promoting a 'PM4', folks are likely relegating the Military - an iconic product name and spyderco flagship - to the dustbin of history.

[amateur blacksmith]

Strange how it all went. If the new compression lock knife was called the PM4 or P2 XL as many have indicated everyone would be happy. Military lovers would feel like the Military had not been succeeded or replaced. And there would be a new, and very likely great new kid on the block. Even though I think the compression lock will be a better seller, the liner lock still has it's place and for some people or situations the compression lock model just won't cut it as a replacement.
The new steel, (assuming S30V will be replaced in new stock) when new stock becomes available will breathe some life back into Military sales as well.

I think that will prove a Pyrrhic Victory

The problem naming the Military 2 the 'PM4 / P2XL' is that the regular liner lock Military will likely die off in a few years. And then there would be no 'Military' at all, barring the model simply being kept alive for sentimental reasons like the Centofante 3.

Other then the handful of forumites who are bored with Comp Locks or have some unique aversion to them, the rest of the knife buying public would choose the 'PM4' aka Military 2 (Military with comp lock + 4 way clip) pretty much across the board. Especially since we're also likely to see future blade steels / sprints / aftermarket support focused on the PM4/Military 2 then the legacy Liner Lock Military.

In the effort to 'save the Military' by promoting a 'PM4', folks are likely relegating the Military - an iconic product name and spyderco flagship - to the dustbin of history.

Hi Mark,

I disagree with you on a couple of points. Many who like the military like it for very practical reasons. Operating a liner lock with gloves is far better than a compression lock. People who work using gloves or wear gloves due to weather or climate understand this. This is not compression lock boredom. There are legitimate reasons a liner lock knife is better in some circumstances.

I completely fail to see how naming the military 2 a PM2 XL or a PM 4 would hasten the demise of the Military in it's current form. To me that makes no sense at all.

I do agree that the successor will in compression lock form will likely be the better seller. The market seems to prefer that lock type. It seems to me that many who trash the original in favor of the compression lock model are talking out of their back end and have never tried the Military to begin with. (This is not aimed at you, for all I know, you have a dozen military's)