Why the torture Spyderco?

[allhatnocattle]

Nearly every single sprint or exclusive comes across the blade forums exchange or fleabay. After The nightmare drop of the REC para 3,i gave up chasing drops.Now i just wait until someone wants to sell their LNIB knife that they had to have. Small profit to them but i get what i want at my leisure.

No muss,no fuss.

[Pokey]

BladeHQ, has failed to order enough to go around.

Did BHQ really fail to order enough?

I wonder, too, but is it calculated? Maybe they feel rather than ordering another run of the black G-10/S30V's, (two drops so far,) and beginning to get stagnated sales, why not freshen things up with a new color and steel? With these Exclusives selling out within 30 minutes, it looks like they've got another winning combo. Plus, most people who want one, know these go fast, so there'll be people marking their calendar, lining up and then wearing out the F5 key to get the next one.

Just speculating, I don't know how many they had to buy of each type for each run, 1000, 1200, 1500, but I'd guess they've sold more of the PM 2 Tanto's than all of the standard PM2's last year.

What retailer wouldn't love to have this problem right now?

On the flip side, Spyderco stepped up and took back, (only they know the details,) 52100 CE, PM 2's and Para 3's from a wholesaler to help them out. Did they order too many? These were selling in the SFO, and the last time I was there, only some of the Para 3's are left.

[Pokey]

I'm not complaining (I don't even like tantos), but it does seem odd that Spyderco, for all of the extensive variety of knives they offer, have no current regular production tanto knives.

I'll bet they're (Spyderco) taking note of the sale of these. They may have plans for something in the future. This "Exclusivity" deal may be a two way street. It may allow the retailer to have a right to the features for a certain amount of time where Spyderco agrees to not "infringe" on the design.

[kobold]

The problem seems to be that the dealers can make orders, but we can't.

If we all individually could order whatever we want, the middle man would be gone along with the flipper parasites (who are lurking these forums, no doubt).

So, once the minimum required number of a product is requested to make a run profitable, Spyderco would put that in the factory queue.

Make the actual numbers public for each product, so we can see how many more must be ordered by us to make that run happen. It would be a good incentive..

Removing the middle man from an equation is always good.

[Salty Dog]

Well said.

[Liquid Cobra]

I created a similar thread a few years ago because I too would like to see a standard production tanto in the line up. It got to 13 pages and had a lot of support. It was specifically requesting the return of the Lum tanto and/or a standard production tanto blade shape.

viewtopic.php?t=74121

I agree, Spyderco seems to have most blade shapes covered but still no tanto. I don’t count the exclusives/sprints.

I’ve been told before that tantos aren’t great sellers, and I believe it. But then why do most other companies seem to carry some form of tanto in their line up?

[ugaarguy]

The problem seems to be that the dealers can make orders, but we can't.

If we all individually could order whatever we want, the middle man would be gone along with the flipper parasites (who are lurking these forums, no doubt).

So, once the minimum required number of a product is requested to make a run profitable, Spyderco would put that in the factory queue.

Make the actual numbers public for each product, so we can see how many more must be ordered by us to make that run happen. It would be a good incentive..

Removing the middle man from an equation is always good.

Because rarely do you actually get as many people to actually pay for a knife as those who request it, and Spyderco has minimum numbers needed to put in a knife in the queue for production. Dealers and distributors are putting up the money months ahead of time to reserve their spot in the queue. So, you need a middle man to gather all the pre-orders and deposits. This was the original idea behind Massdrop and similar companies. There's a middle man who takes a financial risk based on their models and experience of what percentage of those who request the knife will actually follow through and complete the purchase months later.

Also, if you think we on this forum can't request knives, take a look at past history. The Delica wharncliffe that Jazz designed became a standard production model, and that lead to standard production wharnie Dragonflies as well. Spyderco is going to make a larger tool steel / micarta Sprint of the Shaman because the original CruCarta Shaman demand far exceeded the number they thought they needed to produce, and they're making a CruCarta PM2 as standard production because we asked for more CruCarta that we can use. Spyderco made the Chaparral LW and Sage 5 LW as users because so many people wanted a user variant of those knives. Those are just a few examples for Spyderco taking a calculated risk to offer a new variant based on consumer feedback.

I created a similar thread a few years ago because I too would like to see a standard production tanto in the line up. It got to 13 pages and had a lot of support. It was specifically requesting the return of the Lum tanto and/or a standard production tanto blade shape.

viewtopic.php?t=74121

I agree, Spyderco seems to have most blade shapes covered but still no tanto. I don’t count the exclusives/sprints.

I’ve been told before that tantos aren’t great sellers, and I believe it. But then why do most other companies seem to carry some form of tanto in their line up?

Well, look at how poorly flippers and frame locks have done for Spyderco. Southard, Rubicon, Domino, Dice, Slycz Bowie, Sage 2, Mantra 1 and 2, amongst others, all discontinued. But ZT/Kershaw makes tons of frame locks and liner locks that are almost all flippers. How much do you hear about the still in production Brouwer, Swayback, etc here vs. conventional opening back locks and comp locks? Spyderco's Byrd and Value lines are all back locks and liner locks, while CRKT makes a bunch of frame locks at competing prices. Some things just don't seem to sell well for Spyderco, unfortunately.

[Liquid Cobra]

Not really sure what you mean when you list those knives. Many of those knives were so popular they got sequel versions made. As for the Slysz Bowie..that knife was pretty well received lol. It would also be good to mention that many of the knives you listed were the first flippers or bearing models Spyderco produced. They had issues that have been corrected.

I don’t understand the debate. If you don’t like tantos, move along. All good, just different.

[sal]

I think that what Ugaarguy and Cobra were both saying is accurate. Why many models and locks sell well for some companies and not others is a bit confusing. But we've had a few Tanto's in the past and they've just not endured sales wise.

"Tis a puzzlement ?

sal

[bearfacedkiller]

I think I misunderstood the OP’s complaint.

So, is this Para2 tanto a BladeHQ exclusive? Are they the only ones who get to use it? Do dealers get to claim exclusivity of blade shapes/grinds now?

If so hopefully they will run more in different combos for folks who want them. Unfortunately their hype machine is well oiled and their knives usually sell quickly.

[Wartstein]

..

I'll bet they're (Spyderco) taking note of the sale of these. They may have plans for something in the future. This "Exclusivity" deal may be a two way street. It may allow the retailer to have a right to the features for a certain amount of time where Spyderco agrees to not "infringe" on the design.

That´s what I tried to say in my previous post:

- Obviously Spyderco did not have too much luck with Tantos in the past
- BHQ took the risk to try another Tanto Spydie
- Spyderco will notice that it sells well and probably take that into account when thinking about doing a(nother) Tanto knife themselves (I mean like in regular production and available for all retailers)
- So: Even if some people missed out on the PM2 Tanto, the whole thing in the long run probably is good for folks who like Tanto Spydies?

Anyway, I think it is 100% understandable how BHQ did this: Order enough pieces to certainly make some money, but not so many that they´d have to take a too high risk of LOOSING money. That´s just business... and at least quite a few people got a Tanto PM2 as opposed to none, like it would have been if BHQ would not have ordered that run...

[Xformer]

One concept : fear of missing out. I get doing it for exotic steel or funny colors, like a pink Delica, but doing something substantial like a Delica in s30v that people asked for years or a tanto PM2, is pushing the "fear of missing out" concept a little too far imho.

I just hope the more popular sprint will get added in the regular production, like a Dragonfly in S30V.

[sal]

double tap

sal

[Notsurewhy]

Interesting that Spyderco tantos haven't sold well. If I had to speculate, I think that while a tanto is a useful blade shape for certain applications, a high percentage of people buy them for the "look cool and tactical" factor. The Spyderco "performance first" aesthetics might hurt then a bit in this demographic.

At least blade HQ seems to be doing multiple runs of the s30v pm2 for those who prefer a performance oriented tanto. As far as I know, their Jade m4 exclusives are all one and done.

[ugaarguy]

Not really sure what you mean when you list those knives. Many of those knives were so popular they got sequel versions made. As for the Slysz Bowie..that knife was pretty well received lol. It would also be good to mention that many of the knives you listed were the first flippers or bearing models Spyderco produced. They had issues that have been corrected.

I don’t understand the debate. If you don’t like tantos, move along. All good, just different.

I didn't say anything negative about tantos, so need to tell me to "move along". My point was that some things that sell well for other makers don't sell well for Spyderco - Sal understood what I meant. I get that you're frustrated that a blade style you wanted Spyderco to make has only been a limited availability dealer exclusive. Hopefully the BHQ Para 2 tanto sales are enough for Spyderco to make a standard production tanto.

As for you laughing at me about the Slysz Bowie, no it wasn't well received. If it had sold well, Spyderco wouldn't have discontinued it. It gained a cult following after it was discontinued.

[Liquid Cobra]

Not really sure what you mean when you list those knives. Many of those knives were so popular they got sequel versions made. As for the Slysz Bowie..that knife was pretty well received lol. It would also be good to mention that many of the knives you listed were the first flippers or bearing models Spyderco produced. They had issues that have been corrected.

I don’t understand the debate. If you don’t like tantos, move along. All good, just different.

I didn't say anything negative about tantos, so need to tell me to "move along". My point was that some things that sell well for other makers don't sell well for Spyderco - Sal understood what I meant. I get that you're frustrated that a blade style you wanted Spyderco to make has only been a limited availability dealer exclusive. Hopefully the BHQ Para 2 tanto sales are enough for Spyderco to make a standard production tanto.

As for you laughing at me about the Slysz Bowie, no it wasn't well received. If it had sold well, Spyderco wouldn't have discontinued it. It gained a cult following after it was discontinued.

I didn’t mean for you to move along. There are a lot of people saying they don’t want Spyderco to produce a tanto because it’s not for them. I just meant if people don’t like it, just ignore it and enjoy the knives they do like. Spyderco makes plenty of blade shapes that don’t appeal to me, but I’m glad they exist for those that do enjoy them.

As for the Slysz Bowie, Spyderco produced it for 3 years which is a pretty long run for a collaboration design. Especially considering Marcin had so many other designs Spyderco wanted to produce. In comparison, the nirvana which was very popular even though it had some issues, was only produced for a year.

Back to the tanto discussion for me.

I think the internet has had a serious affect on that tanto blades reputation. They apparently don’t cut very well but that has not been my experience. I find the blade shape works well for piercing tasks, while the cutting edge is basically a wharncliffe making for an excellent box cutter. The transition point between the two also works well for small piercing cuts on tape when opening a box without cutting too deep risking damage to the contents.

[Mini2white]

The problem seems to be that the dealers can make orders, but we can't.

If we all individually could order whatever we want, the middle man would be gone along with the flipper parasites (who are lurking these forums, no doubt).

So, once the minimum required number of a product is requested to make a run profitable, Spyderco would put that in the factory queue.

Make the actual numbers public for each product, so we can see how many more must be ordered by us to make that run happen. It would be a good incentive..

Removing the middle man from an equation is always good.

Then the dealers will no longer exist, if we only buy off Spyderco.

[Xformer]

I think that what Ugaarguy and Cobra were both saying is accurate. Why many models and locks sell well for some companies and not others is a bit confusing. But we've had a few Tanto's in the past and they've just not endured sales wise.

"Tis a puzzlement ?

sal

To be fair, even Benchmade retired a bunch of their tanto models. I think Chris Reeve too. Tanto doesn't seem to be that popular nowadays.

Speaking about sales and all, I always wanted to ask you a question : do you think it would be possible to have a list of Spydero most sold knives ? I mean, no hard numbers of course, but just a top 10. A bunch of industry does it, sometimes to highly precise numbers, but the knife industry is highly secretive for something as niche.

I'm passionate about some companies and Spyderco is one of them, so it would be cool to know what's popular and what's not, directly from Spyderco. Would generate some interesting discussions too =D

[sal]

Hi Chapp,

Probably not likely for a number of reasons.

sal

[Xformer]

Hi Chapp,

Probably not likely for a number of reasons.

sal

Ok thanks. I tried =D