Can we (civilly) discuss fixed blade prices?

[curlyhairedboy]

The proficient's market price matches up well with its value, in my opinion. Still waiting on word about a kydex sheath, however.

[vivi]

I would love to see what kind of fixed blade they could produce in 250 €/USD range.
Waterway is great value, so maybe higher the range a bit and produce something else?

The Waterway is actually a great reference point. Completely US made, LC200N, with a US-made Boltaron sheath and an MSRP of $225. With that baseline, what KINDS of fixed blades do folks want? Hunting/fishing, utility, bushcraft, personal-defense? Also, what steels and handle materials are preferred?

Again, it's important to remember that everything is a balancing act when it comes to feasibility and affordability.

Stay safe,

Mike

IMO Spydercos fixed blade models tend to be specialized knives. It seems a good general purpose EDC style blade with a drop point blade is a role filled by the Enuff and that's about it.

As far as materials I want micarta and simple, tough steels. G10 as a second choice. FRN works when its done right, like on the street beat. But as someone that sometimes opt for IWB carry with fixed blades, my Aqua Salt and Waterway are way too abrasively textured for that carry style.

I love bi-directional FRN for my folders but I do not like it in a fixed blade I may want to use for extended wood carving or similar.

I don't want expensive stainless steels that prioritize edge holding over toughness, that's the opposite of what I look for in a fixed blade. I want a steel that's cheap, simple, easy to sharpen....something more like A2, O1 or 1095 pushed to a higher RC than most run it. Or, LC200N and H1 seem to have the toughness of those steels while being relatively inexpensive, and rust proof as a bonus.

I like my Street Beat but the handle throws some people off and I'd prefer a blade shape closer to my Manix

The Ark has the materials I want but again the blade shape isn't what I'm looking for, and its a little small.

The Waterway and Aqua Salt are awesome rust proof utility fixed blades, but a touch large for EDC, and the handles are a little abrasive for daily carry.

Your Ronin 2 carries like a dream and is a great EDC size, but again, its a specialized design.

The bushcrafter and proficient are a great EDC size, but a bit pricey and I like a bit more guard for utility work, and prefer FFG over scandi for any use outside of wood carving.

The Enuff is a nice blue print, but its heavier and thicker than I want for such a short blade.

The Moran is the right size and I love how light it is, but the grip doesn't feel right unless I'm choked up, which isn't what I want in a general purpose handle.

The Bow River is incredibly nice for the price, but I didn't like the edge not being sharpened all the way, again I'd like a drop point or leaf shaped blade, and I've been moving away from chinese products in general.

In the off-topic forum we had anEDC fixed blade discussion going on a while back and I posted this one:





That's along the lines of what I want. It's a simple design with a neutral handle and a drop point blade. About 3.5" of blade, not too thick at the spine, and enough handle for my big paws. Simple construction....A2 and micarta or G10 and a couple of pins. They come with a nicely fitted kydex sheath. They're about $60-80 direct from the maker, about $75-100 from knife shops.

The upcoming stretched Enuff should fill this role well.

I've tried a lot of Spyderco fixed blades and they all have something about them that holds them back from being the ideal EDC FB for me. The closest so far has been the Street Beat. If I could get one with a drop point or leaf shape blade and 2.5mm-3mm stock I'd be happy. As it stands its a bit thick for optimal cutting, and the belly is a bit too prominent for my tastes.

[Pancake]

I agree with Vivi more or less.
Simple contoured handle with G10 or micarta.
3.5 inch blade.
A2 steel, why not.
Kydex sheath.
Blade shape...hmm, I could live with semi skinner, but some general drop point is ok.

[vivi]

Here's another design that gives a good idea of what I'm looking for, the Winkler SD2:



These run $300 and are 4mm thick. I may contact them to see if they can run them thinner on request. I'd like one of these 2.5mm thick in 3V.

EDIT: Also, here's a better image of the first design I shared:



Top is a scandi Bushcrafter (Sold it and replaced with FFG with micarta), middle two are the EDC model, bottom is the PSK model.

[Bolster]

I agree with Vivi and Pancake, particularly on these points:

3.5” blade, give or take.
tough steel priority (prefer stainless if possible)
full tang
leaf shape blade
guard for fingers
edge/grind to/near guard/quillion
Non-Chinese
…and “not a complicated knife.”

Would prefer:
lightweight handle, probably FRN.
Not a fan of bulky grips.
Would prefer <3 oz.

I don’t mean to sound complainy about the current lineup, it’s a great lineup of specialty knives; however I would like a lightweight but sturdy backpacker-oriented user knife about this size. I like the ones that Vivi posted, however, I’m a Spyderco diehard, feel like I’m part of the Spyderco extended family, and would prefer a Sal or Eric designed knife. I have a Spyderco hole cut into each hand!! (OK that last part isn’t entirely true.)

This D-2 Eskabar is what I'm making do with, until I can replace it with a Spyder. Hey at least it has a round hole. 2.8 oz w/o sheath. It has too much belly, wish it were leaf shaped.

[Naperville]

Here's another design that gives a good idea of what I'm looking for, the Winkler SD2:

These run $300 and are 4mm thick. I may contact them to see if they can run them thinner on request. I'd like one of these 2.5mm thick in 3V.

The Bradford Guardian 3 in M390 is almost half the price. They also make a 3.5.

https://bradfordknives.com/14-guardian-3

[Naperville]

As long as this has turned in to a wish list of sorts. Do you know where there aren't too many knives being developed?

The 4.5 to 5.5 inch fixed blade Bowie, with a proper Bowie tip has little competition. What we need is a similar tipped knife right at 4.8 to 5 made out of S45VN.

RMJ Tactical UCAP Up Close and Personal Fixed Blade Knife 4.25" Nitro-V
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/RMJUCA ... -exclusive

Condor Tool & Knife CTK1821-4.5HC Little Bowie Fixed Blade Knife 4.6" in 1075
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/CN1821 ... her-sheath

Rick Hinderer Knives Ranch Bowie Fixed Blade Knife 5.25" Stonewashed CPM-3V
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/RHKK60 ... her-sheath

[vivi]

Street Bowie seems to fill that role.

[Naperville]

Street Bowie seems to fill that role.

VG10

[vivi]

Street Bowie seems to fill that role.

VG10

That, AEB-L and CPM154 are the only stainless steels I'm interested in seeing on fixed blades, aside from rust proof steels. That being said I'd buy a 3V Perrin Bowie :cool:

[JuPaul]

As long as this has turned in to a wish list of sorts. Do you know where there aren't too many knives being developed?

The 4.5 to 5.5 inch fixed blade Bowie, with a proper Bowie tip has little competition. What we need is a similar tipped knife right at 4.8 to 5 made out of S45VN.

RMJ Tactical UCAP Up Close and Personal Fixed Blade Knife 4.25" Nitro-V
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/RMJUCA ... -exclusive

Condor Tool & Knife CTK1821-4.5HC Little Bowie Fixed Blade Knife 4.6" in 1075
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/CN1821 ... her-sheath

Rick Hinderer Knives Ranch Bowie Fixed Blade Knife 5.25" Stonewashed CPM-3V
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/RHKK60 ... her-sheath

That Hinderer is gorgeous. I've definitely had Instagram-induced envy over that one before. :p

And I agree with Vivi that a Perrin Bowie in 3v would be amazing. With canvas micarta scales I'd pay a premium for it, too.

[Naperville]

According to @Larrin, S45VN has a higher total card cut and can carry a higher hardness than 3V. I'd rather see the Street Bowie in S45VN.

Also, it was my oversight that missed the Street Bowie in the initial post. I had used Knife Center's "Find it Fast" interface and selected all Bowie knives, but it did not include the UCAP or Street Bowie.

EDIT:
Please do not try and modify what appears to be a fighting knife in to a bushcraft / woodsman's knife.

[cbrstar]

These are my two best fixed blades. They are both Arkansas Made Dozier's in D2 that I got a deal of a lifetime on. Well this summer I was doing some camping with my friends who are big time outdoor enthusiasts. And all weekend my friend was bragging up his Bark Rivers, so I thought I would shut him up a lil by pulling out my Doziers. We decided that we would have a little contest where we would swap knives and hack down this small dead tree we had found...Well his knife won. I can't explain it but his Bark River just felt so right, and mine felt crude and almost cheap after. You are getting a lot of knife from them at a reasonable cost.

But there are custom makers out there that make beautiful knives at fair prices. Here is a Canadian maker I've met in person https://www.facebook.com/jdcustomknives/ and https://www.jdknives.ca/ named Jessie Lambert. Not only does he make beautiful knives but his leather work is top notch too. And his prices are around $400 cdn ($300us) on most of his knives. I can't help but think there's all these great little makers across the US putting their heart and souls into what they are making.

[Big50]

I have a Lionsteel M4 and M5 fixed blade, and only the M5 has the smallest of gaps at the front of the right side scale, which I never even noticed until now as it does not affect function. The tang of both is prowed with respect to the scales, so I don't know if this is the gap you are referring to.

Both Lionsteel models are about $40 cheaper than the GB Junction at present. They also come with contoured and textured scales versus the flat G10 slabs of the Junction.

I also bought a Junction on discount last year, and while I am satisfied with it, I don't think that its fit and finish is significantly superior to my Lionsteel knives.

It’s hard to photograph (for me anyway). Here’s an example.





FWIW, I vastly prefer the Junction (in spite of the thin scales). Last summer I beat it like a stout camp knife and it just kept going. I will say it did not like being put away wet though (“dry” was nowhere to be found that trip).

Thin is in! Hahaha :)

[Evil D]

I guess it was inevitable that everyone starts comparing other brands but that was not at all my point. I was looking specifically at the comparison with Spyderco's folders and the price difference between the two.

Anyway, informative thread. I'm pretty sure I got my answer.

[cbrstar]

I guess it was inevitable that everyone starts comparing other brands but that was not at all my point. I was looking specifically at the comparison with Spyderco's folders and the price difference between the two.

Anyway, informative thread. I'm pretty sure I got my answer.

I know I was hyping up the Bark Rivers in my post. But I think that's the thing with fixed blades, as it's often not until you handle or use it that you will "get" it. And I kind of think that's where Spyderco does fall short. At least where I live every store that sells Spyderco will have a dozen folders on the shelf for you to try out. But maybe if you are lucky they might have one fixed blade on the wall in the back. With folders you can feel the action and locking right away and if the knife fits your hand. But with big "survival" fix blade choppers it's not until you chop into something that you realize there is a hot spot, or the knife is too heavy to haul on a hike.

One knifemaker I feel that is a good comparison is CRK. And it's because their folders are a lot more expensive then their fixed blades. IMHO It's way harder to make a folder out of titanium with precision then a fixed blade and the price shows. But with Spyderco it's the opposite. I can buy a Spyderco titanium handle folder from Taichung, cheaper then an avg fixed blade from the same factory. Which means to me you're getting a little bit hosed because of the limited production / sales. To make it worth the time tying up the machine and worker to make a fixed blade compared to two or 3 folders.

[shunsui]

Here's a comparison shot of an old Pacific Salt, a Waterway, and a Jumpmaster2.
You can see the fixed blades are full tang and the Pacific Salt's blade is comparably tiny.

[yowzer]

My favorite Spydie fixed blade, the Serrata, isn't that bad price wise... but yeah, some of them get way up there.

Wouldn't mind seeing a scaled down Serrata Jr. for EDC use, though.


One thing I don't get is why the Zoomer is twice the price of the Sustain, a bigger knife also made in Taiwan using CPM-20CV and G-10. It also has fancy grind stuff with the swedge, and is a collaboration model... is a concave edge really that much more expensive?

Edit: or maybe I should be asking why is the Sustain so cheap?

[Naperville]

My favorite Spydie fixed blade, the Serrata, isn't that bad price wise... but yeah, some of them get way up there.

Wouldn't mind seeing a scaled down Serrata Jr. for EDC use, though.


One thing I don't get is why the Zoomer is twice the price of the Sustain, a bigger knife also using CPM-20CV and G-10. It also has fancy grind stuff with the swedge, and is a collaboration model... is a concave edge really that much more expensive?

Shhhhhhhhh.... don't say anything until I get my 2nd or 3rd copy of the Sustain and Province, then they can raise the prices. :D

[Kissaki]

I'd like to see a 3 to 4” Spyderco wolf in sheep's clothing, fixed blade. Doesn't appear tactical, but could easily be pressed into effective service if a self defense need was warranted. Excellent ergonomics for a variety of grips, brown scales that aren't too abrasive against the skin for IWB carry (micarta or FRN), non-aggressive looking blade shape, index finger protection of some sort to prevent slipping forward with a thrust, a decent steel that allows a reasonable MSRP. Something that looks classy, versus threatening, along the lines of the old school, small Dozier that Cbrstar posted.

The knife should be paired with a good, combination IWB/OWB sheath. Works concealed for those who legally can, works on the belt for those who can't. For “open” belt carry, the sheath should be unobtrusive and low profile. Not a bunch of shiny rivets and screws. Too often I see great knife designs hampered by the sheath that comes with them. It almost seems like the sheath is an after-thought. While this does help the custom sheath makers, I wish the industry paid more attention to this important part of the product and there was more innovation in terms of aesthetics and functionality.

Vivi mentioned Daniel Winkler's SD series, a scaled down version of his popular Belt Knife. The original sheath was a variation of the very innovative sheath system that comes with his larger models, without the leather over the Boltaron. It had decent aesthetics with a nice rounded bottom, which I personally think doesn't shout “knife” as much when not worn IWB, compared to the typical angular, molded blade shapes found in most sheaths. Unfortunately, the design had retention issues, and they've now replaced it with a run-of-the-mill, plain looking, IWB Kydex sheath (although I believe it still has the felt lining). In my opinion, a total disconnect from the rustic look of the knife; especially at its price point.

Anyway, I love the original Street Beat, and it's really close to my dream, small fixed blade. But the baby Bowie blade shape and deep choil just aren't optimal for a number of common utility tasks. (I do understand Fred's design rational, and the knife is easily one of the best small, defensive edged tools on the market.) The Moran is close, too, but like Vivi, I've found the handle does constrain some tasks.

Thank you, Sal and Michael, for listening.

K