When I'm standing on top of a ladder 30+ feet in the air and need to use my knife in one hand while holding onto a wall or something I am cutting, I dont think it comes down to being a beginner. Maybe I just don't want to have to worry about where my fingers are in relation to a closing blade that can severely cut my fingers AND cause me to fall off the top of a ladder.Wartstein wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:14 amOther than that "fingers never in the blade path when closing- thing" (which should really not be an issue for experienced knife users (but sure for beginners)Sumdumguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 amIf you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.Rutger wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:55 amJust like Evil D mentioned i think an open back design is the best for the millie. I also think the liner lock is great for operation with gloves. Now the compression lock we are all used to is operated from the back of the knife. But can´t we mate the liner lock with the compression lock and have it be operated like a liner lock at the bottom, but with the benefits of the strength of a compression lock. Sure the fidget factor goes down, but it would make operation with gloves so much better.
And maybe you could design the compression lock so that it can be operated from both the top and bottom? That would make everyone happy. I understand that would take scales that are strong enough so that the metal liner isn't needed for structural strength.
The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.
Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
-Thomas Jefferson
-Thomas Jefferson
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Did not want to imply that YOU are a "beginner" by any means! My apologies if I came across like this.Sumdumguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:22 amWhen I'm standing on top of a ladder 30+ feet in the air and need to use my knife in one hand while holding onto a wall or something I am cutting, I dont think it comes down to being a beginner. Maybe I just don't want to have to worry about where my fingers are in relation to a closing blade that can severely cut my fingers AND cause me to fall off the top of a ladder.Wartstein wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:14 amOther than that "fingers never in the blade path when closing- thing" (which should really not be an issue for experienced knife users (but sure for beginners)Sumdumguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:00 amIf you want a liner lock, get an original Military. Let the rest of us who don't like liner locks have one to enjoy.Rutger wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:55 amJust like Evil D mentioned i think an open back design is the best for the millie. I also think the liner lock is great for operation with gloves. Now the compression lock we are all used to is operated from the back of the knife. But can´t we mate the liner lock with the compression lock and have it be operated like a liner lock at the bottom, but with the benefits of the strength of a compression lock. Sure the fidget factor goes down, but it would make operation with gloves so much better.
And maybe you could design the compression lock so that it can be operated from both the top and bottom? That would make everyone happy. I understand that would take scales that are strong enough so that the metal liner isn't needed for structural strength.
The liner lock is the only reason I haven't owned a Military yet. This will change that, finally.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Fair enough.Sumdumguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:13 amI badly cut myself with one when I was a youngster and haven't used one since. I do enjoy the Mantra though. It has the flipper tab that acts as a kick on a backlock.
Unless there's a block to keep the blade away from it, I don't want my finger anywhere near a blade that cuts on contact.
I almost bought a Ti Military recently, but I just couldn't do it. Then the Military 2 thread started sounding off, so I guess it's a sign.
There are a few other issues related to working conditions that make it a more dangerous locking method for me. In the end, the reason is that the compression lock outperforms all other locks in working safety for me.
But have you ever tried the liner lock military in hand? Because this model has a forward finger choil on the blade it never ever hits me with any sharp part of the blade on the thumb when closing it. I can open and close it blind without me having worries about cutting myself.
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
I honestly have no real love for the liner locks in general, but I do believe it works really well for the Military and the intended use. I've used a Military with extremely thick wool mittens where your fine motor skills are cut down to just about nothing and I was still able to open and close my knife with no problems at all. I'm not so sure I can say the same about a liner lock (honestly I haven't done that particular job in years so I can't say). On one hand my current (and favorite) EDC is the Caribbean, so I'm getting by just fine so far with a compression lock but it's just now getting around to my first winter with it so we'll see how that changes when I'm wearing heavy gloves. I'm honestly really torn on this whole idea...on one hand I love the idea of a comp lock Military simply because I like the lock a lot more than a liner lock, but on the other hand I like to look at things from a more practical perspective than just choosing what I like and I do still feel pretty strongly that the liner lock is the ideal lock for the Military.
Either way I'm probably buying one so this is all just good conversation...no need for you guys to get all up in arms about it. The one thing I'm actually most concerned about isn't even the lock, it's the choil. I have a feeling the choil is going to be enlarged on the Military 2, and I'm probably in the minority when I say I don't want it any bigger than the original especially if it takes away edge length. Fortunately though I think I have 5 or 6 Military's already so if this new model isn't what I'm after it's not a big loss.
Either way I'm probably buying one so this is all just good conversation...no need for you guys to get all up in arms about it. The one thing I'm actually most concerned about isn't even the lock, it's the choil. I have a feeling the choil is going to be enlarged on the Military 2, and I'm probably in the minority when I say I don't want it any bigger than the original especially if it takes away edge length. Fortunately though I think I have 5 or 6 Military's already so if this new model isn't what I'm after it's not a big loss.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Not at all, just demonstrating that you can't generalize an issue. They can affect more than one group.Wartstein wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:28 amDid not want to imply that YOU are a "beginner" by any means! My apologies if I came across like this.Sumdumguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:22 amWhen I'm standing on top of a ladder 30+ feet in the air and need to use my knife in one hand while holding onto a wall or something I am cutting, I dont think it comes down to being a beginner. Maybe I just don't want to have to worry about where my fingers are in relation to a closing blade that can severely cut my fingers AND cause me to fall off the top of a ladder.
Actually I have, but it was before my Mantra so I wouldn't have even thought about that at the time. I would have closed it by unlocking it an pushing it to the detent and then close it from there after moving my fingers.Rutger wrote:Fair enough.Sumdumguy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:13 amI badly cut myself with one when I was a youngster and haven't used one since. I do enjoy the Mantra though. It has the flipper tab that acts as a kick on a backlock.
Unless there's a block to keep the blade away from it, I don't want my finger anywhere near a blade that cuts on contact.
I almost bought a Ti Military recently, but I just couldn't do it. Then the Military 2 thread started sounding off, so I guess it's a sign.
There are a few other issues related to working conditions that make it a more dangerous locking method for me. In the end, the reason is that the compression lock outperforms all other locks in working safety for me.
But have you ever tried the liner lock military in hand? Because this model has a forward finger choil on the blade it never ever hits me with any sharp part of the blade on the thumb when closing it. I can open and close it blind without me having worries about cutting myself.
The Mantra was an accident. I went to close it up after I received it and it popped past the detent and the flipper tab hit my finger. Huzzah!
Still not my favorite but useable.
That's hilarious!
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
-Thomas Jefferson
-Thomas Jefferson
- dj moonbat
- Member
- Posts: 1488
- Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
- Location: Sunny SoCal
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
This is awesome news. But I have to play the “pics or it never happened” card, in hopes of getting Sal to show off even more.
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
NICE!!!!!!
I can already feel that thing launching open in my hand via an authoritative spydie flick.
- Surfingringo
- Member
- Posts: 5833
- Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:02 pm
- Location: Costa Rica
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Neither the liner lock nor the compression are my favorite locks but I like both of them fine. The liner lock on the Millie is actually the best example of that lock I’ve experienced. I wouldn’t buy a Millie 2 just for a compression lock but if that model also comes tapped for tip up carry then I will choose the 2 over the original simply for that.
-
- Member
- Posts: 6949
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:16 pm
- Location: Liberal, Kansas
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Since the Military is a bigger overall platform than the PM2, it is possible that a compression lock Military could be implemented in a fashion that improves on the glove-friendliness of the PM2. Don’t limit Spyderco designs to what has come before, let’s see what they develop.
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Just one of the aspects that makes a lock glove friendly is that you can either disengage it with the thumb (backlock) or have a really large area to work with (linerlock).Bill1170 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:12 amSince the Military is a bigger overall platform than the PM2, it is possible that a compression lock Military could be implemented in a fashion that improves on the glove-friendliness of the PM2. Don’t limit Spyderco designs to what has come before, let’s see what they develop.
Comp. lock and mittens is a bad combo imho...
Last edited by Wartstein on Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
@pancake: thanks
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Added to my post above:
But sure, if they'd make the locktab of the comp. lock a LOT larger and as little recessed as possible, that would change things
But sure, if they'd make the locktab of the comp. lock a LOT larger and as little recessed as possible, that would change things
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- steelcity16
- Member
- Posts: 5356
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:34 am
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Whatever they can do to prevent the knife from opening partially while in the pocket would be great as well. Had that issue with my Para 3 LW. I believe during movement the fabric of my shorts would bunch up and press the lock tab releasing the blade allowing it to open slightly. Very hazardous and caused me to sell mine. The Shaman doesn't seem to have this issue with it's slightly different design. It's been in my pockets of shorts and jeans non-stop for a good month now and no random partial openings.
CRU-CARTA THE SEKI MODELS! AND BRING US THE DODO-FLY!
-
- Member
- Posts: 6949
- Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:16 pm
- Location: Liberal, Kansas
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Yeah, it would amplify the very things I dislike most about the comp lock. I've been pinched and stung by that tab too many times already to be thrilled with the prospect of a bigger, more acceccible tab.
- steelcity16
- Member
- Posts: 5356
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:34 am
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
yablanowitz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:46 am
Yeah, it would amplify the very things I dislike most about the comp lock. I've been pinched and stung by that tab too many times already to be thrilled with the prospect of a bigger, more acceccible tab.
I haven't had the pinch problem with my Shaman yet either, but I definitely did on my Para 3 LW, Para 3s, and PM2s. Super annoying.
CRU-CARTA THE SEKI MODELS! AND BRING US THE DODO-FLY!
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
The comp lock definitely sux. However I'm very interested in the button comp lock. More button please!yablanowitz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:46 amYeah, it would amplify the very things I dislike most about the comp lock. I've been pinched and stung by that tab too many times already to be thrilled with the prospect of a bigger, more acceccible tab.
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
I've never had any issues operating a comp lock lefty or with my thumb?Wartstein wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:19 amJust one of the aspects that makes a lock glove friendly is that you can either disengage it with the thumb (backlock) or have a really large area to work with (linerlock).Bill1170 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:12 amSince the Military is a bigger overall platform than the PM2, it is possible that a compression lock Military could be implemented in a fashion that improves on the glove-friendliness of the PM2. Don’t limit Spyderco designs to what has come before, let’s see what they develop.
Comp. lock and mittens is a bad combo imho...
I'd love to see them incorporate a szabo folder style self close on a comp lock Military.
Re: Military 2. What exactly is going on?
Wouldn't a solution to that be carrying the knife with the back of the blade facing the outer pocket stich ?steelcity16 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:48 amyablanowitz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:46 am
Yeah, it would amplify the very things I dislike most about the comp lock. I've been pinched and stung by that tab too many times already to be thrilled with the prospect of a bigger, more acceccible tab.
I haven't had the pinch problem with my Shaman yet either, but I definitely did on my Para 3 LW, Para 3s, and PM2s. Super annoying.
I'm excited to see the Military 2, whatever the lock, because its design is what attracted me to Spyderco (though I bought a PM2 for size reasons, wouldn't want to scare customers when I'm flipping a 4" blade to open boxes).
European amateur knife enthusiast
Hikes and outdoors galore
Motorcycle enthusiast
In the knoife box : M4 Millie, Spyderco Perrin Street Bowie, TOPS Tanimboca
In the future : CE/SE/Rex45/MagnaCut Millie, K2, Slysz Bowie, linerlock Sage
Hikes and outdoors galore
Motorcycle enthusiast
In the knoife box : M4 Millie, Spyderco Perrin Street Bowie, TOPS Tanimboca
In the future : CE/SE/Rex45/MagnaCut Millie, K2, Slysz Bowie, linerlock Sage