Best Blade Length for Self Defense; And What Do You Carry For This Purpose

[Wartstein]

I think what's more important than the model you carry is that you can draw and open it as second nature under stress.

... and that you're really willing to use it in time. I figure that really stabbing or slicing someone with a knife is one of the hardest things to pull off from a psychological point of view. Way harder than punching or shooting an opponent (though admittedly, like most middle Europeans, I know almost nothing 'bout shooting).

[MacLaren]

If I was forced to use a blade in that role, I'd probably go for

Lol, awesome as usual buddy! :D

[Sumdumguy]

How about a 3" 9mm?
I hear they will cut a fool up real bad!

[Evil D]

I think what's more important than the model you carry is that you can draw and open it as second nature under stress.

... and that you're really willing to use it in time. I figure that really stabbing or slicing someone with a knife is one of the hardest things to pull off from a psychological point of view. Way harder than punching or shooting an opponent (though admittedly, like most middle Europeans, I know almost nothing 'bout shooting).

Either one had better be an absolute last resort and your life better genuinely be in danger or it'll cause more harm than good. When it comes to people they'll need to be actually trying to kill me for me to draw either one, but I do encounter dogs quite a bit and though I love animals I'm not about to get mauled by one so that's where knives and SD are most realistic for me. I have actually drawn my knife on one occasion when encountered by a dog but he turned out to be more bark than bite. It would break my heart to have to hurt a dog though.

[Catamount123]

Here is a list (with blade lengths) of the knives in the 2019 Spyderco catalog that were either designed for SD by experts in various systems/methods, or are endorsed for SD by such an expert:

Folders

Yojimbo 3.2”
P’Kal 2.95”
Chinook 4 3.89”
Matriarch 2 3.57”
Civilian 4.09”
Delica 4 2.95”
Endura 4 3.8”

Fixed Blades

Ark 2.56”
Ronin 4.08”
Street Beat 3.51”
Perrin Street Bowie 4.74”
Karahawk 2.35”

[JonLeBlanc]

Ugh, I'd only ever consider using a knife in self defense if my life were really on the line, and there was absolutely no other alternative, INCLUDING running away/giving up the cash. The thought of being in a knife fight is chilling.

[ladybug93]

If I was forced to use a blade in that role, I'd probably go for

i thought that was lynn thompson for a second, but no cars are getting stabbed.

[ZrowsN1s]

I’ve read numerous posts on other forums regarding the proper blade length for a self defense knife. Often times I’ve seen responses stating that 3.5-4” is the minimum, and others going as long as 6-7”. If these opinions were to hold any merit, why do you have well renown self defense experts like Craig Douglas, and Michael Janich, designing knives with cerca 3” blades?

I help teach in a system heavily influenced by Filipino martial arts (Kali), which deals very much in knife fighting and self defense, so I have my own opinions, but I was just curious on any thoughts or insights others might have to share.

To answer your question more directly, I don't think that opinions that say you need a knife larger than three inches to defend yourself (with a knife) hold much merit. I think this is evidenced as you point out by the design and experience of the experts.

[MichaelScott]

Bloke, you are in your usual form!

[James Y]

If I was forced to use a blade in that role, I'd probably go for

Probably not a legal carry everywhere... :D

Lol, Bloke! At first, I thought that was Dana White (UFC president). Then I thought, what would he be doing with a pocket machete? :D

Jim

[SamClemens14]

If I was forced to use a blade in that role, I'd probably go for

Probably not a legal carry everywhere... :D

Lol, Bloke! At first, I thought that was Dana White (UFC president). Then I thought, what would he be doing with a pocket machete? :D

Jim

Haha. Fantastic. I think the only way to up that anti, would be an OTF Kitana.

[BigGrove]

If I was forced to use a blade in that role, I'd probably go for

This is exactly what this thread needed, oof...

[SamClemens14]

Alright everyone. I started this thread. I think I found the answer that I was looking for, and I believe it would out match, even the pocket machete. Everything we’ve all been saying in one pocket sized package.


https://giphy.com/gifs/murder-knife-h1e ... &utm_term=

[Michael Janich]

Hey, All:

Threads like this are challenging because they tend to drift pretty quickly from the core question. While that can certainly be fun and entertaining, it often leaves that question unanswered.

FWIW, this is the logical process I teach when it comes to knives and self-defense:

If you plan on defending yourself with a knife--or any other weapon--you must carry that weapon on your person to ensure you'll have it when you need it. While self-defense with environmental weapons is definitely valid, counting on the fact that you'll always be able to pick up an appropriately sized rock or other object at a moment's notice is unrealistic.

If you are forced to defend yourself, you will fight with the knife you ACTUALLY carry. That typically means something small, convenient, and legal to carry in your area.

If you choose to carry a larger knife than is legally allowed, you are starting your claim to self-defense as a criminal. I'm sure someone will chime in with "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6" here. That's up to you. Being a law-abiding citizen also has its advantages.

Based on the blade length you can legally carry, you should quantify and understand the actual destructive capacity of your knife. In other words, what kind of damage can you really cause to human tissue. I do "Pork Man" tests to quantify that.

Once you understand the destructive capacity of your knife, you need to translate that damage to the human body and determine which anatomical targets are viable.

You also need to remember that self-defense is about stopping the attacker reliably and decisively. If you cut his carotid artery, but as he's bleeding out he's still able to crush your skull with a tire iron, you still lose. That means understanding human anatomy from a medical standpoint, not a misinformed martial arts standpoint.

Finally, you need to structure your tactics so they allow you to effectively attack stopping targets while protecting yourself from injury. That takes actual training and practice.

With all this in mind, my approach to knife tactics--Martial Blade Concepts--uses Boston and Chicago's 2.5-inch blade length limits as a baseline. If I am in either one of those jurisdictions and 2.5 inches of blade is all I've got, I need to make sure my tactics still work effectively. If they work with that, they'll also work--arguably better--with longer blades in other jurisdictions.

Carrying a knife--or any other weapon--for self-defense takes commitment. Having the ability to draw it quickly and use it effectively takes training and practice. And, yes, all of that is a last resort after awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, and boundary setting--the "soft" skills that should always (ideally) come first before resorting to any type of physical conflict.

I hope this helps. If you're interested in more guidelines for choosing a personal-defense knife, here's an article I wrote on the topic for Small Arms Review magazine: http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display. ... icles=3367.

Stay safe,

Mike

[ladybug93]

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display. ... icles=3367.

from the article linked above:

“For a knife carried constantly, corrosion resistance is actually more important that long-term edge holding.”

does this mean you’ll be trying to convince spyderco to make a yojimbo in lc200n? i’ve brought this up in a few threads now and have received very little traction. it makes sense to me that a self defense knife would be carried at all times and close to the body, meaning it would benefit greatly from being made in a rustproof steel. it would make the knife more reliable with less maintenance. i know s30v is pretty resistant to corrosion, but lc200n is better and makes more sense in this application, in my opinion.

[SamClemens14]

Hey, All:

Threads like this are challenging because they tend to drift pretty quickly from the core question. While that can certainly be fun and entertaining, it often leaves that question unanswered.

FWIW, this is the logical process I teach when it comes to knives and self-defense:

If you plan on defending yourself with a knife--or any other weapon--you must carry that weapon on your person to ensure you'll have it when you need it. While self-defense with environmental weapons is definitely valid, counting on the fact that you'll always be able to pick up an appropriately sized rock or other object at a moment's notice is unrealistic.

If you are forced to defend yourself, you will fight with the knife you ACTUALLY carry. That typically means something small, convenient, and legal to carry in your area.

If you choose to carry a larger knife than is legally allowed, you are starting your claim to self-defense as a criminal. I'm sure someone will chime in with "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6" here. That's up to you. Being a law-abiding citizen also has its advantages.

Based on the blade length you can legally carry, you should quantify and understand the actual destructive capacity of your knife. In other words, what kind of damage can you really cause to human tissue. I do "Pork Man" tests to quantify that.

Once you understand the destructive capacity of your knife, you need to translate that damage to the human body and determine which anatomical targets are viable.

You also need to remember that self-defense is about stopping the attacker reliably and decisively. If you cut his carotid artery, but as he's bleeding out he's still able to crush your skull with a tire iron, you still lose. That means understanding human anatomy from a medical standpoint, not a misinformed martial arts standpoint.

Finally, you need to structure your tactics so they allow you to effectively attack stopping targets while protecting yourself from injury. That takes actual training and practice.

With all this in mind, my approach to knife tactics--Martial Blade Concepts--uses Boston and Chicago's 2.5-inch blade length limits as a baseline. If I am in either one of those jurisdictions and 2.5 inches of blade is all I've got, I need to make sure my tactics still work effectively. If they work with that, they'll also work--arguably better--with longer blades in other jurisdictions.

Carrying a knife--or any other weapon--for self-defense takes commitment. Having the ability to draw it quickly and use it effectively takes training and practice. And, yes, all of that is a last resort after awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, and boundary setting--the "soft" skills that should always (ideally) come first before resorting to any type of physical conflict.

I hope this helps. If you're interested in more guidelines for choosing a personal-defense knife, here's an article I wrote on the topic for Small Arms Review magazine: http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display. ... icles=3367.

Stay safe,

Mike

Me. Janich,
Thanks so much for your reply. We teach many of the same concepts in our class, including the potential legal ramifications of using a knife in an SD situation.

We teach a concept called “defanging the snake”, meaning if you can stop the threat by cutting non leathal targets, and if necessary disarming the attacker, do so. It could save you a lot of legal trouble, assuming you make it out of the situation.

This may not always be an option, but we like our students to be aware of these tactics as opposed to thinking you always have to go for vital targets. This is of course after all options of avoidance, deescalation, and escape have been exhausted.

Honestly, when I started this thread, I was just curious to know what particular features, other than blade length, made people choose one knife over another for an SD knife. For example, for me, I like a good guard, not very pronounced thumb ramp, but with positive jumping, since I prefer the Filipino thumb forward grip, and a blade that slices well, but has a decently pronounced and robust point.

One again I appreciate your well thought out comments, and expertise on this subject.

[TomH]

Is there even a cut and dried answer to this question? To me, the best length depends partly on the situation. In certain cases, something like a Hossom Forester with a nearly 10 inch blade would be the best choice. If so,
then to survive at that time with only an ARK would require tremendous skill and a heavy dose of luck. In other cases, you could be in a situation where it was impossible to access a big knife. Then you'd be hoping you had a small one like the ARK or even a Cricket with you.

[ZrowsN1s]

Thanks Mike. Well said.

Sam, to answer one of your other questions, I've found some pluses and minuses for SD for most of the knives I carry. Some are better suited than others, but I think just about anything can work if you practice with it. I don't carry a 'dedicated' sd knife anymore, rather I try to practice with all of them.

I like the delica because it fits my hand perfectly, just a good size, no 50/50 choil, it has a trainer, it's light in the pocket, unassuming, and is easy to deploy and hold in just about any position, forward, reverse, rgei. It's also thin and a good slicer. (Comes in wharncliffe)

The Yojimbo 2 is a SD purpose built knife. Good ergos, got a nice gaurd/choil, thick spine, but thin hollow ground blade, a good spot to put your thumb so you can cut with power and an acute point. The wharncliffe shape also helps with deep cutting, as pressure doesnt let up from heel to tip of blade. Good shape for poking as well. The compression lock is also a plus for ease of deployment and lock strength. Also has a trainer.

If your into RGEI style the P'kal has a lot going on for it. Emerson wave for fast opening and a cbbl lock for superior lock strength. Sort of a cross between a wharncliffe and a hawkbill. Very fast, very stabby. Also has a trainer.

I like the Shaman a lot too, no thumb ramp so you can get your thumb on the spine for power cuts. Good spear point blade shape. Heavy thicker blade than the others, but in my cut testing it cuts deep and slices near as well as the others, more than adequate for sd. Down side might be the 50/50 choil, I actually like using it for an SD grip, and I feel like I can get a solid grip on it that isn't going anywhere. But there is always the risk of slippage. Same for the smooth G-10. Other than those two concerns I'd rate it pretty solid for SD.

The PM2, Para3, and Police 4 deserve mention too, but I'm off to bed. Perhaps I'll post more about them later.

[Michael Janich]

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display. ... icles=3367.

from the article linked above:

“For a knife carried constantly, corrosion resistance is actually more important that long-term edge holding.”

does this mean you’ll be trying to convince spyderco to make a yojimbo in lc200n?

My realm of influence is very limited...

Stay safe,

Mike

[BigGrove]

Looks like about the right size to me. Even folded it's as long as your leg.