What is your bevel angle set at?

[tps3443]

I see a lot of people sharpening smaller knives at about 14-15DPS, like a PM2, or PM3.

But, I see like Spyderco Military and Manix XL, Resilience sharpened to about 17.5-20DPS.

Any reasoning behind this? When both knives could have the same steel strength?

[vivi]

I think people expect larger knives to be tougher.

I run my Manix XL, Police 3 and Police 4 around 10 degrees per side. Free hand so it isn't exact, but you'll find few people who post Spydercos with bevels as wide as mine.

I'll have to look through my old posts and find a picture of my CPMD2 Military. That knife made a 10dps bevel look obtuse.

I run a 15-20 dps microbevel on all my knives, mainly so they can be touched up in less than 10 strokes on the sharpmaker. But a secondary purpose is to strengthen the edge. It's one of the ways I'm able to get away with such thin angles.

Tomorrow I'll be posting a video of me intentionally abusing my reground Manix XL. The results might surprise you.

EDIT: Here's an old picture of that D2 Military. I cleaned up the bevel later on and polished it up a bit, but those pictures are on my desktop at home.

[vivi]

Here's an old post of mine showing a variety of regrinds. They're ugly, but they sure cut nicely. Most are saber grinds I took flat to the stone, then sharpened at a normal 15dps or so from there.

Here's a few knives I've done up over the years...



ZDP189 Endura converted to scandi grind. The edge held up just fine to chopping and batoning.



S30V UKPK converted to zero convex grind (The edge chipping was from intentional abuse, this edge angle was stable under EDC cutting)



I had to grind my ZDP189 Caly Jr this thin before I saw edge damage carving into knotty hardwoods.



Same Caly, different angle.



An old Izula with a nice and wide bevel



Native 1 converted to zero saber grind, then gave it a microbevel. First time I attempted the zero grind conversion, you can see my technique was off near the ricasso.



Cara Cara 1 converted to zero saber grind, then given a not-so-micro bevel



Police 3 back when it had a slightly thicker edge than it does now. It's been in and out of my pocket for a decade with no chipping, despite frequently using it to hack and chop at overgrown trails.



Current state of my PE Aqua Salt. I chop and baton and pry chunks of wood off fallen logs with this knife with no second thoughts.

Lastly, here's the two Spydercos in my pocket tonight. Manix XL and Swick 3:



As mentioned earlier, I chopped wood, batoned wood and sliced through a pop can with that Manix tonight. It still cleanly shaved stubble without being touched up.

[tps3443]

I’m curious to see that video. After cutting nearly 400ft in cardboard with a knife that wasn’t all that scary sharp to start with, and seeing it would still roughly shave pretty well in the end, absolutely blew my mind!

I’m curious as to what kind of cutting performance 10dps gives a knife.

[Pelagic]

S110V I have at about 11-12dps, slightly microbevel'd via stopping, mainly for ease of resharpening. I get a chip here at that angle when not using a microbevel. That's all I've carried lately so I can't remember what else I have. I think my Cruwear pm2 is still sitting at 15dps.

[Brock O Lee]

These convexes are my favourite edges! Micro bevels at 15 dps give enough strength for durability and is quick and easy to touch up, like Vivi said. :)

G10/Ti M4 Military:



204P:



52100:



Manix Cruwear (left), Sage 2 (right):



Tuff:


I left it a lot thicker than the others, just knocked off the thick shoulders of the V bevel to make it cut more like a knife and less like a sharpened pry bar, and a 20 dps micro.

I have a few others that are similar, but no pictures at the moment.

[Pelagic]

That Tuff looks amazing.

[vivi]

Brock, those Millies have gorgeous edges.

Now that I'm on my desktop, I can post another picture of the D2 Millie. Looking slightly less amateurish....





It's the thinnest I ever took an EDC folder that size. I did similar things with it that I did in the Manix XL video I just posted, and it held up with zero edge damage.

[tps3443]

Brock, those Millies have gorgeous edges.

Now that I'm on my desktop, I can post another picture of the D2 Millie. Looking slightly less amateurish....





It's the thinnest I ever took an EDC folder that size. I did similar things with it that I did in the Manix XL video I just posted, and it held up with zero edge damage.

That is a nice edge! Whenever I build another computer, I’m gonna start encoding again and putting together some really good knife related videos. Mostly about edge retention, sharpening etc.etc.

[Brock O Lee]

Brock, those Millies have gorgeous edges.

Thanks!

Let me share a little secret...

To get a nice uniform convex I cheat a bit and first reprofile with the EP by cutting a bevel with a coarse diamond stone as low as it can go on the EP. I think its around 7dps if I’m not mistaken. I stop grinding this bevel about .5mm before reaching the apex, so that there is still a little bit of meat behind the edge, but this depends on how thin I want the end result.

Now I put away the EP, mark the edge with a sharpie, and use a DMT XC and C freehand to form the convex by grinding full flat against the primary grind and increasing the angle up to the apex. I avoid apexing and creating a burr as much as possible during the forming, and destress the edge if I see a burr. I proceed through the grits and finally deburr and cut a micro bevel.

Interestingly, I find the EP Coarse 120 SiC stone produces a finish that closely matches most of the the factory primary grind satin finishes, so I often use it to finish shaping the convex.

I’ve tried the “mousepad and sandpaper” method but I find it very fiddly and slow, and easy to ruin an edge when you accidently plow the fresh apex through the sandpaper.

[Brock O Lee]

It's the thinnest I ever took an EDC folder that size. I did similar things with it that I did in the Manix XL video I just posted, and it held up with zero edge damage.

That one is thin! It must have taken hours to grind and finish a wide bevel like that.

My experience with thin edge durability is similar to yours. Most pocket knife tasks are light enough that thin edges with micro bevels perform without damage f you use them sensibly and are aware of the risks. If you slip up and hit a staple or concrete you will be sorry, but that’s the trade-off you make to have great cutting ability. It’s not for everyone.

[tps3443]

S110V will hold steep angles like what vivi runs on his vg10, and S30v blades. But, I’ve noticed anymore than about 14dps contacting just a little metal on accident with s110v will chip with a microbevel or not.

[blueblur]

I run everything at or under 15 dps. I have a Manix in Cruwear that I took down to around 10-12 dps and I've been taking some of my 52100 and VToku blades down to about 12-14 dps. I'm experimenting more with micro bevels and stops and I like these lower angles. I haven't experienced any negative effects with these angles but also don't use my knives too hard.

[brainfriction]

I usually aim for 20 dps. I'd go lower, but I like a polished edge and I think a super wide polished bevel just looks bad.

[UserNameBill]

20 degrees per side. It’s the most common recommended angle found on most sharpening devices for a reason... It cuts well and consistently has as good a edge retention as the steel allows.

Plus, once you Know what 20 degrees looks like and feels like on all your different knives your sharpening and touch up work becomes easier and more consistent. I sharpen at 20 consistently then if I want to raise or lower the angle I have a good solid understanding of what 20 feels like. If my attemps at freehand sharpening at a lower angle gets my knife duller then my Spyderco Sharpmaker or any number of other devices will bring it back to a solid 20 quickly.

Use a sharpie.. I have gotten to where I don’t paint the entire edge anymore... I just put three or four small lines on the edge, I’ve found that I can better see the marks being removed with clean blade around them rather than all black and my sharpening rods stay cleaner.

[vivi]

Lower edge angles generally increase edge retention fyi :)

[Cycletroll]

Nice edges Vivi!
What is your favorite stone for reprofiling?

[jpm2]

I once went to the trouble to see what my "normal" benchstone free hand angle was. I checked 2 knives and they both were about 14 degrees on one side, 17 the other. I always knew I was sharpening at a different angle from side to side. I guess it's just a natural thing.

[vivi]

Nice edges Vivi!
What is your favorite stone for reprofiling?

DMT XX Course 8". If you don't mind dropping a little more $$, the 11" would be even better.

Much of my early reprofiling was done on 6" stones, and that's why a lot of my older knives have a ton of scratches near the tip. 6" is a bit too short, and I had a habit of accidentally sliding the knife off the corner of the stone trying to make them work.

I once went to the trouble to see what my "normal" benchstone free hand angle was. I checked 2 knives and they both were about 14 degrees on one side, 17 the other. I always knew I was sharpening at a different angle from side to side. I guess it's just a natural thing.

You're not alone. I've measured a lot of factory edges, and on the majority of them the show side is ground noticeably more obtuse than the back side.

[jpm2]

All these are about 30 degrees, maybe.