Gayle Bradley Advocate First Impressions?

[Liquid Cobra]

My lanyard tube was rattling as well. Upon disassembly I added some blue loctite to it and that took care of the rattle.

[Bodog]

I wonder if spyderco realizes how many people feel the need to void their warranties to fix minor issues and that's the reason they don't see a lot of them being returned for these minor things.

I wish they'd modify their warranty to still cover people with good intentions who can and do open their knives to fix these minor issues rather than bombarding their w/r dept with a whole bunch of knives with little problems here and there.

If a knife is pinned and you need to do some serious work to get it apart, that's one thing, but when you have a simple two slab handle held together with simple screws and someone takes it upon themselves to fix these minor issues spyderco, imo, should be grateful that they don't need to pay someone to fix the issue because the owner did and thought nothing about it. Just my opinion. These owners who fix these issues on their own save spyderco from needing to hire more people to fix the issues at the cost of losing their warranty. It does cause at least some discontent. People do it knowing it costs them their warranty and yet we're still fans. I do kind of wish Spyderco would return the favor by not unconditionally voiding the warranty.

And no, I'm not talking about doing major modifications or trying to tinker with it and screwing it up out of incompetence. But I don't see how doing a handle swap or putting locktite on a rattling lanyard tube or breaking a knife apart to inspect bearings and bearing races should void a warranty. I just don't get that. Not in this day and age in the knife world where people love to take a knife apart and look at the quality of machining inside of a knife to justify to themselves why they spent $500 on a knife rather than $50.

[hank_612]

Mine is still running perfectly as is one I bought for an employee as a reward. My domino is a few years old and has no issues with the same washers. I would be down with PB washers in place of bearings. My para 2s run on PB washers and are very smooth. I don't think bearings are needed for this type of folder. I trust that if there is truly an issue that effects more than 1% of the advocates sold, Sal will fix the issue.



I own several flippers and have owned several others that I didn't keep. One of the knives in the picture below was declared worn out by its maker before it was 3 years old . It cost many times what the Advocate costs and was not stood behind half as well as Sal will stand behind his product.

[zeroed4x]

Mine is still running perfectly as is one I bought for an employee as a reward. My domino is a few years old and has no issues with the same washers. I would be down with PB washers in place of bearings. My para 2s run on PB washers and are very smooth. I don't think bearings are needed for this type of folder. I trust that if there is truly an issue that effects more than 1% of the advocates sold, Sal will fix the issue.

So you're somehow in the know as to exactly how many Advocates are affected ? Where did you obtain this information, just curious. Thanks

One of the knives in the picture below was declared worn out by its maker before it was 3 years old . It cost many times what the Advocate costs and was not stood behind half as well as Sal will stand behind his product.

Please let me know who that manufacture/maker is of that disposable knife so that I never ever purchase anything from them. Thanks.

[hank_612]

Mine is still running perfectly as is one I bought for an employee as a reward. My domino is a few years old and has no issues with the same washers. I would be down with PB washers in place of bearings. My para 2s run on PB washers and are very smooth. I don't think bearings are needed for this type of folder. I trust that if there is truly an issue that effects more than 1% of the advocates sold, Sal will fix the issue.

So you're somehow in the know as to exactly how many Advocates are affected ? Where did you obtain this information, just curious. Thanks

One of the knives in the picture below was declared worn out by its maker before it was 3 years old . It cost many times what the Advocate costs and was not stood behind half as well as Sal will stand behind his product.

Please let me know who that manufacture/maker is of that disposable knife so that I never ever purchase anything from them. Thanks.

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I simply stated that I had faith that Sal would take care of any issue that effects more than 1%. I was not asserting an opinion on the the number of units with issues. I don't have a clue.

[dreadpirate]

Just got my Advocate. My first impressions:
1. The orange peel finish is awesome!
2. The handle shape has an excellent feel.
3. The Reeve lock is really strong, takes a lot of thumb to unlock the blade in order to close it. I think it's too strong. I am wondering if that's more of the issue than "thin" washers? It's a con, but not a show stopper for me.
4. The action was initially stiff but is loosening up. My Mantra was the same way but after a week is like butter.
5. Stiff or not, it is very, very easy to flip. The pivot arm gives you plenty of lever action.
6. This knife is a little more difficult to flick with the Spydie hole since the hole is more recessed in the handle.
7. However, because the Spydie hole is recessed in the handle, the knife is rather slim for it's size. It is comfortable to carry.

So I will be curious to see how the action is a week from now.

[zeroed4x]

Mine is still running perfectly as is one I bought for an employee as a reward. My domino is a few years old and has no issues with the same washers. I would be down with PB washers in place of bearings. My para 2s run on PB washers and are very smooth. I don't think bearings are needed for this type of folder. I trust that if there is truly an issue that effects more than 1% of the advocates sold, Sal will fix the issue.

So you're somehow in the know as to exactly how many Advocates are affected ? Where did you obtain this information, just curious. Thanks

One of the knives in the picture below was declared worn out by its maker before it was 3 years old . It cost many times what the Advocate costs and was not stood behind half as well as Sal will stand behind his product.

Please let me know who that manufacture/maker is of that disposable knife so that I never ever purchase anything from them. Thanks.

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I simply stated that I had faith that Sal would take care of any issue that effects more than 1%. I was not asserting an opinion on the the number of units with issues. I don't have a clue.

Well yes sometimes when I read things rather quickly so please don't get your spydie hole bent out of shape. If there are any numbers I'm interested as well as the official resolution to this issue.

[dreadpirate]

I have seen a couple of reviewers on social media relent on their claim of gritty action for the Advocate.

[Surfingringo]

I have seen a couple of reviewers on social media relent on their claim of gritty action for the Advocate.

Things like this have a tendency of getting blown way out of proportion on the internet. I don't doubt that some people have an issue. Spyderco's flippers might even benefit from some CQI. But I do HIGHLY doubt that this issue is nearly as widespread as one might assume from reading the forums a couple of weeks ago. I have seen issues like this catch fire time and again on social media, only to die away after thousands of people continued to buy and use the knife/product without issue.

Am I saying that the folks who are having issues are making it up or that the issue doesn't need to be responded to? Absolutely not. I am simply saying that I believe these issues are FAR more isolated than one would think from watching it play out on the forums. I have a custom Advocate that runs on bearings and I don't think mine even has washers. I'll have to ask Gayle about that. Anyway, the knife continues to be one of my favorite models of all time. If I didn't own the custom, I would pick up one of the Spydercos in a heartbeat without concern.

[Ocarr]

I've heard that the bearing system used on the custom is slightly different than what Spyderco used on their version.
(Now, I do not own either, so at least a grain of salt is required until someone who does own both can chime in)

[Parkeralto]

The Advocate checked all the right boxes for me so in spite of all the hubbub over the bearing problem I went ahead and ordered one. Forewarned, I figured I could prevent problems by doing a little hand fitting. So ten minutes after the red box arrived, I had the knife apart, lapping the blade tang with 15micron diamond film on a granite plate then 3 micron. I did not remove all the factory scratch pattern but got a near mirror polish that I figured would give those little balls an easier path to break in.
That was the theory; In practice I was too late; the knife came from the factory with dished washers and a bearing track already formed on the tang; but instead of a nice smooth wear pattern you would want to see, I found uneven wear, galling and the beginnings of a crack in one of the washers. Photos show the blade after polishing; bearings as they came from the factory.
So I have the knife back together, working nicely. I actually think I made the problem worst because it is impossible to reassemble the knife exactly as it came; there is a faint “rumble” in the action that I would equate to the sound wheel bearing in a car tell you they are going out.
I still like the knife, It is nicer looking in person than in photos, carries and handles beautifully and if Spyderco doesn’t come up with a retro fix, a pair of properly sized PB washers will take care of the problem.

[rybu0305]

Thanks for the photo evidence of the issue, parkeralto.
I am ready to pull the trigger on an Advocate as soon as I know Spyderco is either going to take it back and retrofit or releases a version with a fix.

[burlyspyder]

That GBA is a beautiful knife. Hoping to hear more on the bearing issue before pulling the trigger.

[ramasipsc]

Can someone explain how ball bearings made track on CPM M4 steel? Unbelievable!

[sal]

Hi ParkerAlto and Burlyspyder,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[PayneTrain]

I've been avoiding opening this thread since its first post because I wanted this knife so bad, but it is out of my price range for the foreseeable future and I didn't want to come in just to torture myself. It's just freaking gorgeous and absolutely screams my name. A shame though that these bearings are being such a wet blanket for some. I still can't figure out how to get my Southard back into flipping shape. I wonder if there are other viable bearing design options out there that are more reliable? I really like the idea of bearings but their complexity compared to a washer opens up the possibility of more modes of failure by default. It still wouldn't scare me away from getting an Advocate though. Much like the Mantra, they built this knife for me. No doubt about it.

[Archimedes]

Due to all the controversy I ordered one. I am not a fan of flippers but I got to see for myself and I will probably take it apart and void my warranty also.

Can't wait! :D

[Tim_B_Riding]

Mine is being sent in to warranty this morning. The blade is no longer centered and there is considerable side to side play when locked open. I was never impressed with the action but didn't hate it either. There is so much to love about this knife. The ergos? Amazing. The fit and finis and how it rides in your pocket are fantastic. I love the polished sides of the scales. The blade shape and length is perfection IMO. These attributes were enough for me to overlook the underwhelming action but now I need to send it in.

[palonej]

I have tons of faith in Spyderco and Sal. Tons!! I want this knife so bad I can taste it, but I am going to wait and that flat out sucks.
Not sure of the percentage of them that are having these issues, wish we did, but I have a Domino and a Southard. They are so stupid smooth and flip beautifully that they are my 2 fave Spydies!
Is it possible that only a handful of them are having problems??
The way this usually goes is for every complaint that you hear, there are 100 that are fine and we won't hear of those.
Ugh, I really want that knife.
Joe

[Bodog]

I have tons of faith in Spyderco and Sal. Tons!! I want this knife so bad I can taste it, but I am going to wait and that flat out sucks.
Not sure of the percentage of them that are having these issues, wish we did, but I have a Domino and a Southard. They are so stupid smooth and flip beautifully that they are my 2 fave Spydies!
Is it possible that only a handful of them are having problems??
The way this usually goes is for every complaint that you hear, there are 100 that are fine and we won't hear of those.
Ugh, I really want that knife.
Joe

Between youtubers and complaints seen here and on BF there's been probably 30 to 40 people complaining about the action and those are just the ones who are on the forums. Have more than 400 been sold at this point? I remember back in the day several people complaining about the Southard and they were slapped around quite a bit for bringing the issue up on BF. While I believe quite a few are happy, I also believe a lot WEREN'T happy and either sent them back or just choose not to say anything about it. BF is not the most welcoming to people who don't blindly follow the herd.

People know that Spyderco has some catching up to do regarding bearing pivots and it probably has hurt sales over the years. I know that the three or so Southards I've handled and the one domino and one mantra were all pretty mediocre. Granted they were all brand new except the Mantra and I tried flipping it for a week straight and it ended up failing in another way. I handled them at shows and knife shops, handed them back, and chose not to go that route even though I really like the domino design. I kind of figured the Mantra would be different so I bought it sight unseen.

All that to say I'm sure I'm not the only one who's pawed these knives and said "thanks, but no thanks" based on the action compared to what else is out there. If you're standing at a knife case and you're looking at a $200 ZT and a $200 Spyderco, both riding on bearings, it'd be really hard to say Spyderco was doing that specific thing better. Other stuff, absolutely, and that's why we're all fans, but the bearing pivots? Um. Sorry, they're hit or miss. Buy 5 of the same model and pick the one with the best action and send the other 4 back? I guess that's something that COULD work. Make sure you go to a brick and mortar shop and handle all the ones they have in stock and pick one? That'd be another choice, I guess, if a shop was close.