Knife and steel people: New insights into how water vapor creates corrosion, could lead new rust proof alloys?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Read this everyone:

https://www.nanowerk.com/nanotechnology ... =51908.php

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41563-018-0078-5

Perhaps this can lead to better understanding of rust and corrosion, and, new rust proof metals.

I am glad we have Lc200N, H1, and other nitrogen steel.

[Bloke]

I am glad we have Lc200N, H1, and other nitrogen steel.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

LOL!

[demoncase]

Read this everyone:

https://www.nanowerk.com/nanotechnology ... =51908.php

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41563-018-0078-5

Perhaps this can lead to better understanding of rust and corrosion, and, new rust proof metals.

I am glad we have Lc200N, H1, and other nitrogen steel.

Here's one to consider: With the right surface texturing you can make steel hydrophobic.
Meaning water will not settle long enough to cause rust.
That's not a plating or a coating- it's a texture laser-etched into the surface.
http://www.the-mtc.org/our-projects/shark
There's other objectives of the project- and most of it is under wraps- but there's lots that can be done with Big Data simulation working out viable textures combined with our fusion welding and laser tech to solve some of the huge industrial problems that we rely on some fairly toxic coats for.

I'm Head of Quality, Continuous Improvement & Environmental Health & Safety for this organisation and we are doing some utterly amazing stuff- this is but one of maybe 1000 projects of all varieties that we are doing.....Take a look. :)
https://www.linkedin.com/company/themtc/

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you, this is very good news, demoncase. I have wondered if that is possible, to alter the surface of existing materials and alloys, without needing any new or exotic elements, to cause major application changes, and there you and others are developing it. Excellent!

Can you please also remind me again what "stumbling blocks" or developmental steps need to be overcome by global industry, in order for many of these super experimental materials we see written up in the science and physics news, to become mass-produced commercial realities that effect everyday people's lives for the better? Is the main issue cost, and also toxicity issues?

For example, I may have mentioned it to you before, but back in the early 2000s some laboratory in Sweden and elsewhere made a carbon-nitrogen based fullerene, nick-naming it "Bucky Onions", and their summary was that it was a superb material with high strength, hardness, as well as flexibility, and ofcourse it would not rust, and they seemed very optimistic about it. But now it is 2019 and we do not see this mass produced and available at local stores in the form of consumer products. What are some likely reasons why? Infact, here is the original article for you and others to read:

https://physics.aps.org/story/v8/st27

https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/1 ... .87.225503

By merely reading the listed properties, it seems this would be a great material for knives, armour, electronics coverings such as smart phone cases, and a wide range of other products. Could there have been some "fatal flaw" discovered in it as time went on or is it simply lack of sufficient interested investment?

This almost seems to fit the description of the "plassteel" as read of in War Hammer and also in John Steakley's novel "Armour".

[demoncase]

Thank you, this is very good news, demoncase. I have wondered if that is possible, to alter the surface of existing materials and alloys, without needing any new or exotic elements, to cause major application changes, and there you and others are developing it. Excellent!

Can you please also remind me again what "stumbling blocks" or developmental steps need to be overcome by global industry, in order for many of these super experimental materials we see written up in the science and physics news, to become mass-produced commercial realities that effect everyday people's lives for the better? Is the main issue cost, and also toxicity issues?

That's easy to explain- it's precisely why the UK has set up Catapult Centres like mine- it's best explained by the Technology Readiness Level concept:
TRL 1- Academic concept on paper
TRL 2- Research and Invention
TRL 3- Proof of concept- peer reviewed paper
TRL 4- Bench scale R&D
TRL 5- Pilot scale R&D
TRL 6- Large Scale R&D
TRL 7- Initial Industrial Development
TRL 8- Low Rate Initial Production or 'Beta test'
TRL 9- Production or Operational Process (depending)

Pretty much everything at the deep end of experimental materials is in the TRL 2-3 range.
Universities stop at TRL 3- Because they have limited resources and TRL onwards takes deep pockets
Industry starts at TRL 7- Because to put money into tech or design before that is very high risk (There's a laundry list of companies that gambled on the 'next big thing' in something and ended up as a footnote in history)
The stuff we buy is TRL 9 (You could argue reasonably that Spyderco's Mule Team project is a classic TRL 8 'beta testing')

So you have this gap that (sadly) gets called 'The Valley Of Death'- TRL 4 to 6- where Industry isn't willing to gamble on it and Universities can't afford to push through it.....and it's where great ideas go to die.

That's what MTC and the Catapult Centres in the UK are for- to provide a low-risk environment to bring academia in with industry.....We are the bridge over that Valley Of Death.
We have about 250 PhDs in the building- and they are fun to work with

For example, I may have mentioned it to you before, but back in the early 2000s some laboratory in Sweden and elsewhere made a carbon-nitrogen based fullerene, nick-naming it "Bucky Onions", and their summary was that it was a superb material with high strength, hardness, as well as flexibility, and ofcourse it would not rust, and they seemed very optimistic about it. But now it is 2019 and we do not see this mass produced and available at local stores in the form of consumer products. What are some likely reasons why? Infact, here is the original article for you and others to read

Again- that's TRL 3.
Unless they find someone to fund them across that gap to TRL 6 you'll never see it.

Also- Production scaling a bench scale material is frequently where these things fall down.

Utterly unrelated example (but based on personal experience):
You make a lovely homemade pasta sauce on your stove from tomatoes, onions, garlic, salt and fresh herbs
You make 1 liter of it- no problem. Jar some up for the week, use half today.
So your local food factory decides to ask for your recipe to make 10,000 liters for a production run
That cute little froth you had when you were simmering the sauce?- Yeah, at production scale that's now 6 foot deep and in danger of filling the factory.
Those herbs you added?- How are they going to keep 1000x that amount of herbs sorted, chopped and suspended in the sauce? How are they going to stop them settling to the bottom in the jar to make an ugly green sludge?
And so on.

Productionising stuff is not easy.

[JD Spydo]

I am glad we have Lc200N, H1, and other nitrogen steel.

Yeah BLOKE I always thought you had a crush on Judy Garland :rolleyes: :D . Just stay the heck away from that curtain my friend because you don't want to know what's behind it :rolleyes: :D

But maybe if we just keep our blades coated/oiled and well maintained then maybe it's a moote point anyway. I've said for years that it's really hard to beat the TUF CLOTH made by Sentry Solutions.

But when it comes to nitrogen based steels I've got a feeling that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg so far.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

JD Spydo, are you saying if I get some of that Tuf Cloth stuff and I wipe down carbon steel blades, they will be as rust resistant as stainless steel, or not quite?