Advice? Para 3 - Arrested in NYC

[Wartstein]

Hello,

since I am living in Europe and don´t know much about American knife laws I am no help unfortunately. Just wanted to say: I am really sorry for you, that´s crazy!

All the best!

I thought NYC was in Europe. Did they come back?

Must be a joke... and, honestly, I don't get it... ?!

[The Deacon]

The best advice we can give he OP is that he's in serious trouble and should get a good lawyer. Knife Rights or AKTI might be able to suggest one.

Perhaps work the unreasonable search and seizure defense though I too am not a lawyer or familiar with NYC knife law.

Despite not being a lawyer I'm fairly sure that, if a knife is partially visible, a search would be considered reasonable for "officer safety" pretty much anywhere in the USA if there was some reason for the stop. Only difference is that, outside of NYC, stopping someone just to determine if the knife was legal would be less likely and a Para 3 would definitely not be considered a gravity knife.

Just a tad off topic, but stop & frisk may be right for NYC, but it would never fly down south or especially in the country.
The first thing I think of when I think of stop & frisk is : " Papers Please" - Russia. No way that would fly in my neck of the woods.
That being said, a place like NYC, with the real threat of terrorism and real bad guys, whether gangs or mafia, I can see it being a very useful tool to combat crime.
I dunno O.P. - if I were you I would either obey the law to the letter or just move. Because as Sal said, big brother is BIG.

IDK, drugs and gangs are everywhere and cops get shot and otherwise assaulted every week, so I suspect pat downs occur all over the country. Outside of urban areas most will be the result of vehicle stops, but the principle is the same.

[Sjucaveman]

Edited to simplify.

New york laws suck.

[MacLaren]

I apologize Paul. I should have been more clear.
I'm talking about when a person does not have a knife on themselves. Or when the knife is in the pocket and not visible.
Surely when one is visible the police will be able to check for length and whether it's a switch blade nor gravity whatever else may be illegal in their city.

[GarageBoy]

Yeah, that's the reason no one ships locking folders to NYC.

If it flips open and locks (trust me, they will find a way to flick it open, they punched my knife in a reverse grip, and popped it down, and wrist flicked up to get it to open), don't carry it. Pocket clips are a no no, and I've had friends stopped for a clipped flashlight. I carry an urban inside my bag and that's it

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28088

This is me 10 years ago

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Could they do that to an Opinel or is there sufficient friction to keep the blade from being flipped open?

[awa54]

Could they do that to an Opinel or is there sufficient friction to keep the blade from being flipped open?

Depends on the individual Opinel and the humidity at the time... I have two No. 8s and one needs to be pried open, the other will open on its own without much effort (This is a problem, since it's an older model without the lock-closed feature). In any reasonable situation an Opinel wouldn't be an issue, since they lock closed and take two hands to firmly lock open, but that's not what people are up against in NYC... If I had the misfortune to live in a situation like that, I'd only carry Slipits; I challenge *anyone* to wrist-flick my Pingo open

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you, very good point!

[GarageBoy]

Could they do that to an Opinel or is there sufficient friction to keep the blade from being flipped open?

Depends on the individual Opinel and the humidity at the time... I have two No. 8s and one needs to be pried open, the other will open on its own without much effort (This is a problem, since it's an older model without the lock-closed feature). In any reasonable situation an Opinel wouldn't be an issue, since they lock closed and take two hands to firmly lock open, but that's not what people are up against in NYC... If I had the misfortune to live in a situation like that, I'd only carry Slipits; I challenge *anyone* to wrist-flick my Pingo open

The law states flick open and lock - ladybugs will get you in trouble - on a lanyard they flick

The slipits were proven in court to be ok

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I will mention this again since we are on the topic of knife bans:

It seems that people put a big emphasis these days on emotional arguments for and against things, such as the "me too movement" and the anti bullying movement. And so, why don't we knife people turn the tables on them and use the same argument, instead of trying to use rational and scientific arguments which we have done and they do not seem to care, why don't we use the "emotional angle" and put forth the idea that we the people of the knife owner world feel bullied, marginalized, oppressed, used, abused, and hurt emotionally and psychologically...and the more bans on knives that exist, the more our pain increases, and we too demand justice and freedom and our voices to be heard...that sort of argument, and demand that they reverse and get rid of such rules. How effective would that be or not be?

Or are you saying that the only reason why the powers that be have allowed those other groups to have their way, is because their desires fit in with the grand plan so to speak, to move society away from individualism and freedom and independence, and more towards a centralized system of control, whereas giving more freedom to knife owners does not fit in with their grand plans?

[Crux]

I have hesitated to comment on this thread because I cannot imagine a Para 3 involved in any issue with the law. I am shocked that NYC does not realise that the Para 3 is the quintessential bearing arms that the Founders referenced in the 2nd Amendment! Even in the Declaration of Independence the Founders spoke of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. What brings more happiness than a Para 3? Sure you can come up with a couple of rebukes but deep in your heart of hearts, you know that the humble but loveable Para 3 is the light that shines on all humanity.

[cbrstar]

https://axischemicals.wordpress.com/201 ... 007-knife/

Interesting read about the "007" flick knife that's probably responsible for NYC's BS knife laws. But one of the most important things Law Makers always miss is it has to be CHEAP.
If you are desperate enough to use a knife as a weapon in crime. Well your looking for something that's cheap and plentiful. You're not going to be using a $200 knife.

[standy99]

Lawyer up and start getting a few “ he’s a good citizen “ references from people you know

[curlyhairedboy]

I wonder if the PITS is enough of a slipjoint to avoid the issue in NYC.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What does PITS stand for?

Do you think this type of knife would be safe for people or could it be flipped open with one hand?

https://www.knifecountryusa.com/store/p ... andle.html

[GarageBoy]

That should be fine
A PITS should be too (pie in the sky, a discontinued Spyderco slip joint made for the UK)

[The Deacon]

https://axischemicals.wordpress.com/201 ... 007-knife/

Interesting read about the "007" flick knife that's probably responsible for NYC's BS knife laws. But one of the most important things Law Makers always miss is it has to be CHEAP.
If you are desperate enough to use a knife as a weapon in crime. Well your looking for something that's cheap and plentiful. You're not going to be using a $200 knife.

Interesting article, but I find it difficult to "connect the dots" between an event (or series of events) that happened in the 1970's with New York County District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.'s decision around 2010 to encourage the NYPD to stretch the definition of a "gravity knife" as defined in a New York State law that had been on the books since the mid 1950's to include just about any locking folder. I'm more inclined to believe that, at least initially when he was using it to extort money from businesses that had been selling locking folders for decades without incident, it was simply a way to boost City revenue during the recession.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

https://axischemicals.wordpress.com/201 ... 007-knife/

Interesting read about the "007" flick knife that's probably responsible for NYC's BS knife laws. But one of the most important things Law Makers always miss is it has to be CHEAP.
If you are desperate enough to use a knife as a weapon in crime. Well your looking for something that's cheap and plentiful. You're not going to be using a $200 knife.

Interesting article, but I find it difficult to "connect the dots" between an event (or series of events) that happened in the 1970's with New York County District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.'s decision around 2010 to encourage the NYPD to stretch the definition of a "gravity knife" as defined in a New York State law that had been on the books since the mid 1950's to include just about any locking folder. I'm more inclined to believe that, at least initially when he was using it to extort money from businesses that had been selling locking folders for decades without incident, it was simply a way to boost City revenue during the recession.

And what is the reason for the present resistance from the ruling powers there to reverse the ban? Is it because it is

1 too economically lucrative for them to give up on because they can always fall back on it as a way to make money from citizens?

2 Ideaologically it helps push the disarming the public and making people more dependent on government, and, perhaps in their eyes those who push for civilian carry of one hand openers are "conservative", even though this is a bi partisan issue with both democrat and republican pro knife voters being against the bans?

[justjohn]

My 2 cents worth: DISCLAIMER...I AM NOT A LAWYER, OR PRESENTLY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER!
When in doubt, don't let the clip hang out. A law enforcement officer must be able to articulate "probable cause" (in the absence of a warrant) to a judge. Failure to do so should ultimately result in rendering anything obtained from the contact as inadmissible (Fruit of the Poisonous Tree Doctrine). Please be aware you should always have competent legal representation in court which can cost you $$$!

I hope your financial damage is minimal.

[cbrstar]

https://axischemicals.wordpress.com/201 ... 007-knife/

Interesting read about the "007" flick knife that's probably responsible for NYC's BS knife laws. But one of the most important things Law Makers always miss is it has to be CHEAP.
If you are desperate enough to use a knife as a weapon in crime. Well your looking for something that's cheap and plentiful. You're not going to be using a $200 knife.

Interesting article, but I find it difficult to "connect the dots" between an event (or series of events) that happened in the 1970's with New York County District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.'s decision around 2010 to encourage the NYPD to stretch the definition of a "gravity knife" as defined in a New York State law that had been on the books since the mid 1950's to include just about any locking folder. I'm more inclined to believe that, at least initially when he was using it to extort money from businesses that had been selling locking folders for decades without incident, it was simply a way to boost City revenue during the recession.

I've been reading on other sites that it's being used by police to harass and discriminate against minorities.