"Domestic Chauvanism"?

[ChrisinHove]

In a globalised economy, significant proportions of components and/or materials can be from overseas in domestically manufactured products making it difficult to judge “where it’s made”, and domestic companies can have overseas factories etc.

If the price is right, the quality satisfactory, and it’s not ripping off a proprietary design, I’ll consider buying it.

[supracor]

There's a huge halo of disinformation in the world of Italian cutlery; most makers make things mechanistically, different makers I spoke to don't understand temper of the steels and they make it only "because if you don't temper steels they become a piece of glass"
Countless times I saw suboptimal steels for certain functions (such as choppers in M390, sleipner flippers and S125V razors) whith a suboptimal HT.
There are also innovative makers, but they are the minority in my opinion.

[The Mastiff]

Other than me not liking flippers in general what is wrong with Sleipner in a flipper of folder? It's a good steel in the D2 up to Cruwear area performance wise. I saw some Italian S125V folders but not razors. That would be very strange. Likewise a M390 chopper. I remember Farid making a chopper out of something like Rex 121 or Supracore or something in that class. He stated it was around rc 50 annealed when he was grinding it. That seemed unusual.

Joe

[supracor]

Other than me not liking flippers in general what is wrong with Sleipner in a flipper of folder? It's a good steel in the D2 up to Cruwear area performance wise. I saw some Italian S125V folders but not razors. That would be very strange. Likewise a M390 chopper. I remember Farid making a chopper out of something like Rex 121 or Supracore or something in that class. He stated it was around rc 50 annealed when he was grinding it. That seemed unusual.

Joe

This is the link to the S125V razor; at the end of the page you can find the english translation:

http://www.ilrasoio.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1937

A S125V razor is probably one of the worst things you can do; you can worsen the situation only with Rex121, Supracor or 15V and i haven't to say why.
Moreover I don't understand why you have to use S125V if you want to harden it only up to 60/61 rc.

I believe that you know who is the only one that offers Sleipner flippers.
There are a bunch of better choices for folders than Sleipner; it has less than 8% Cr and it is near all bonded in carbides therefore it isn't stain resistant at all; it's hardened at 60/61 rc and it's offered in near 5 mm blades, and the warranty doesn't cover chopping or similar; moreover it's a frame lock and i don't know who want to chop with it.

Rex121 is 57/58 Hrc annealed, Supracor is not far away.


A little note
The link that i have pasted here on the S125V razor is one of the dumbest things that i have read in my life.

[Dingo]

As long as it’s made on earth with attention to detail and my money puts food on a deserving mans/woman’s table.
Then I’m happy and comfortable with my purchase

[The Deacon]

Also a very good point. Infact, what are some ways that you know of that we can distinguish between genuine real honey and fake honey made with additives? I was told by someone that a scary fact, according to them, is that some of the legitimate companies who produce honey, while not adding materials that could kill or make a human sick, still add "Edible Fillers" such as thickened corn syrup, which is a deceptive practice and is not right. This person told me that a large percentage of honey we have consumed is sugar and corn syrup.

I have also read that there is FAKE RICE being exported from China.

Depends on whether or not you trust the FDA to enforce regulations and American companies to follow them. Like most other packaged foods, honey being sold must have a label showing all the ingredients. So, if that label shows honey as the only ingredient, either you're getting pure honey or the folks who bottled it are breaking the law. Any honey that I've seen for sale in supermarkets lately also shows country of origin, I suspect that's also per yet another government regulation, so again, if it says Product of USA, it's either from here or the folks who bottled it are breaking the law.

If you're willing to pay more, you can always find an apiarist near you and buy you honey from them. Some say that's the best way to do it if you're looking to maximize honey's heath benefits.

[bearfacedkiller]

I buy local honey. I actually buy honey from the guy I bought my house from and the hives that used to be in my backyard are now about a mile down the road. His bees are still pollinating my property. :)

Everywhere I have lived local honey was easy to find. The issue is on prepackaged foods. There is no way to know if my "honey"nut cheerios are using real honey or some fake honey.

[The Deacon]

Everywhere I have lived local honey was easy to find. The issue is on prepackaged foods. There is no way to know if my "honey"nut cheerios are using real honey or some fake honey.

Well Darby, once again it comes down to whether or not you trust the FDA and the manufacturer. I tend to trust the FDA, but I know there are those who do not. At any rate, if the label lists "honey" as an ingredient then, from a legal standpoint, they have to contain honey. Whether that's the sole source of sweetness, just the primary source of sweetness, or just a minor source of sweetness, is another matter. But, once again, the label will let you know.

As for the specific case you mention, according to General Mills, Honey Nut Cherios contain the following:

Whole Grain Oats, Sugar, Oat Bran, Corn Starch, Honey, Brown Sugar Syrup, Salt, Tripotassium Phosphate, Rice Bran Oil and/or Canola Oil, Natural Almond Flavor. Vitamin E (mixed tocopherols) Added to Preserve Freshness.

So, honey is listed, but since ingredients are listed in order of quantity, sugar is the first listed sweetener, and brown sugar syrup is listed immediately after honey, I'd say it's definitely not the main source of sweetness.

I normally eat hot cereal, but if I were going to eat Cheerios, I'd probably opt for the original recipe version and add my own honey and fruit, nuts, or both. That's what I occasionally do with oatmeal, kamut, cracked wheat, and mixed grain hot cereals.

[tvenuto]

Everywhere I have lived local honey was easy to find. The issue is on prepackaged foods. There is no way to know if my "honey"nut cheerios are using real honey or some fake honey.

Great reason not to eat prepackaged food in general, I would think.

I accidentally drove through a General Mills plant once in Buffalo, and it did not seem like a place that made food, as I know it anyway. If you had told me they built nuclear warheads there, or terminators, I’d have believed you.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Everywhere I have lived local honey was easy to find. The issue is on prepackaged foods. There is no way to know if my "honey"nut cheerios are using real honey or some fake honey.

Great reason not to eat prepackaged food in general, I would think.

I accidentally drove through a General Mills plant once in Buffalo, and it did not seem like a place that made food, as I know it anyway. If you had told me they built nuclear warheads there, or terminators, I’d have believed you.

I understand what you mean about fresh vs pre packaged, and a good friend of mine once told me that in an ideal world, all food, from meat and vegetables, to bread and cheese and everything else, would all be fresh and be free of preservatives, and all be 100 percent organic and all of that. I agree with that and with you. But to play the "Counter Argument", tv my friend, what would you say to this?

I heard that in the 1950s-1970s there was an attitude prevalent among many people that "Pre packaged is best. Why eat fresh foods that can be inconsistent in their quality when you can eat the latest food science has to offer: Flash frozen vegetables and foods, pre packaged tv dinners, canned foods that are guaranteed to be safe (unless the seal was broken and then people could get botulism!)." What would your response be to that?

[tvenuto]

See how the 70s people who were raised on “better living through chemistry/technology/tv dinners” are doing (in general). It’s not good. The 65-74 age group is actually the highest T2 diabetic rate in the US (even higher than 75+).

My parents who were born early 50s are massively more healthy than my wife’s parents, who were born late 60s. That’s just one example but it is indicative. Our food culture went down the drain somewhere in that time. People stopped being taught how to cook by their (largely ethnic) parents, and started being taught by magazine advertisements (“here’s how to use that cream of mushroom soup!!”).

[MichaelScott]

We live in a small rural area. We have a weekly farmers market. That cannot supply enough food to sustain a Family through the week. If you don’t farm or have enough land to grow and raise your food you are stuck with buying it from another source. If you live in large towels and cities there’s no way you were going to continually eat non-packaged or processed foods.

You just have to be very careful about the contents of the food that you consume. It’s unrealistic to think that a society can live without packaged and processed foods.

[The Deacon]

We live in a small rural area. We have a weekly farmers market. That cannot supply enough food to sustain a Family through the week. If you don’t farm or have enough land to grow and raise your food you are stuck with buying it from another source. If you live in large towels and cities there’s no way you were going to continually eat non-packaged or processed foods.

You just have to be very careful about the contents of the food that you consume. It’s unrealistic to think that a society can live without packaged and processed foods.

I agree, and it's going to depend to a large extent on where you draw the line. Do you consider fresh produce from a supermarket to be either? Would you consider meat from the supermarket to be either, even if you watched the butcher trim it before he put it in the plastic tray and wrapped it? Would you consider things like flour, even whole wheat flour, to be either? Milk in a bottle? Eggs in an carton? How about boxes or bags of whole grain cereals where the only ingredient(s) listed are the grains themselves? Would you really rather buy those out of a bin that you have no idea how many people may have sneezed, coughed, or simply breathed into than in a box or bag? But at least those cereals get cooked. There are folks who'd rather buy things like "organic" nuts and dried fruit that way. :eek:

[tvenuto]

I personally do not consider those things “processed.” Cutting into chunks, placing in a bag, or partitioning is not what I mean.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I personally do not consider those things “processed.” Cutting into chunks, placing in a bag, or partitioning is not what I mean.

Deacon, I read a very alarming article that was claiming many urban super markets have been "tinkering" with the alleged "fresh butchered meats" they sell in the meat sections, such as using chemicals and sprays and other means to make meat that is not as fresh as they claim, look fresher than it is, at the expense of the health of the consumer. Not good. Also read about "meat glue" that is an organic meat based adhesive that some have used to glue pieces of meat together to make it seem as if one is getting a solid piece of meat.

Check these out:
The FDA claims meat glue is "safe".
transglutaminase, meat glue:

http://www.cookingissues.com/transgluta ... index.html

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/s ... glued-meat

carbon monoxide used to make meat look fresh:

https://www.insideedition.com/investiga ... -and-juicy

https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Artic ... -for-meats#

Supposedly in Europe the EU prohibits companies from doing that.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

We live in a small rural area. We have a weekly farmers market. That cannot supply enough food to sustain a Family through the week. If you don’t farm or have enough land to grow and raise your food you are stuck with buying it from another source. If you live in large towels and cities there’s no way you were going to continually eat non-packaged or processed foods.

You just have to be very careful about the contents of the food that you consume. It’s unrealistic to think that a society can live without packaged and processed foods.

I have heard this said by others, that there is no way to feed the present world population by by farming in the old-way, without some massive changes to the very nature of the earth and the enviroment. Is this because of the massive volume necessary to provide food for people?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I personally do not consider those things “processed.” Cutting into chunks, placing in a bag, or partitioning is not what I mean.

Would you say that frozen produce, such as peas, corn, carrots, and others, as long as there are no excess preservatives added, and it is the straight forward vegetable or fruit, that is frozen, is just as good as eating fresh foods, with no loss of nutritional value, vs canned vegetables and fruits, which have added salt and which have been most likely boiled and thus some of the nutrition has been broken down? In other words, would a bag of fresh carrots and a bag of frozen carrots be just as good as each other, as opposed to a can of carrots?

[ThePeacent]

I personally do not consider those things “processed.” Cutting into chunks, placing in a bag, or partitioning is not what I mean.

Would you say that frozen produce, such as peas, corn, carrots, and others, as long as there are no excess preservatives added, and it is the straight forward vegetable or fruit, that is frozen, is just as good as eating fresh foods, with no loss of nutritional value, vs canned vegetables and fruits, which have added salt and which have been most likely boiled and thus some of the nutrition has been broken down? In other words, would a bag of fresh carrots and a bag of frozen carrots be just as good as each other, as opposed to a can of carrots?

oftentimes fresh vegetables have less nutrients than frozen vegetables due to the losses in nutrients caused by transport, heat, light, storage, manipulation, etc. :o
Several studies confirm that. Most times frozen veggies are more nutritious than the same fresh vegetables taken from the shelves :)

A for canned, boiling and heat often reduce the amount of Vitamin C and A, E or K in vegetables (especially longer boiling temps and times) but canned tomatoes, for instance, have a much higher Lycopene concentration and it is more bioavailable and better absorbed by the body due to heating, boiling and breaking of the cell walls containing it. Because they are in a way "pre-digested", whereas fresh tomatoes are harder to digest and some of the nutrients they have go undigested and are excreted. :eek:

They also last much longer in storage, beneficial for Winter or out of season months, catastrophes, survival, camping, etc.

Same applies to many other vegetables. Carotene in carrots is more available to the body and better absorbed if they're boiled and/or chopped to bits.
On the negative side, canned veggies often have too much salt, preservatives, sugar, and other additives and water soluble vitamins are partially lost

I personally do not consider those things “processed.” Cutting into chunks, placing in a bag, or partitioning is not what I mean.

Deacon, I read a very alarming article that was claiming many urban super markets have been "tinkering" with the alleged "fresh butchered meats" they sell in the meat sections, such as using chemicals and sprays and other means to make meat that is not as fresh as they claim, look fresher than it is, at the expense of the health of the consumer. Not good. Also read about "meat glue" that is an organic meat based adhesive that some have used to glue pieces of meat together to make it seem as if one is getting a solid piece of meat.

Supposedly in Europe the EU prohibits companies from doing that.

it is mostly forbidden, but some brands and supermarkets still do it, oftentimes receiving a severe fee or economical loss when discovered. :p
They play with gas, light, and other layered additives to "freshen up" meat and fish to make it look more recent and attractive to buyers

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I personally do not consider those things “processed.” Cutting into chunks, placing in a bag, or partitioning is not what I mean.

Would you say that frozen produce, such as peas, corn, carrots, and others, as long as there are no excess preservatives added, and it is the straight forward vegetable or fruit, that is frozen, is just as good as eating fresh foods, with no loss of nutritional value, vs canned vegetables and fruits, which have added salt and which have been most likely boiled and thus some of the nutrition has been broken down? In other words, would a bag of fresh carrots and a bag of frozen carrots be just as good as each other, as opposed to a can of carrots?

oftentimes fresh vegetables have less nutrients than frozen vegetables due to the losses in nutrients caused by transport, heat, light, storage, manipulation, etc. :o
Several studies confirm that. Most times frozen veggies are more nutritious than the same fresh vegetables taken from the shelves :)

A for canned, boiling and heat often reduce the amount of Vitamin C and A, E or K in vegetables (especially longer boiling temps and times) but canned tomatoes, for instance, have a much higher Lycopene concentration and it is more bioavailable and better absorbed by the body due to heating, boiling and breaking of the cell walls containing it. Because they are in a way "pre-digested", whereas fresh tomatoes are harder to digest and some of the nutrients they have go undigested and are excreted. :eek:

They also last much longer in storage, beneficial for Winter or out of season months, catastrophes, survival, camping, etc.

Same applies to many other vegetables. Carotene in carrots is more available to the body and better absorbed if they're boiled and/or chopped to bits.
On the negative side, canned veggies often have too much salt, preservatives, sugar, and other additives and water soluble vitamins are partially lost

I personally do not consider those things “processed.” Cutting into chunks, placing in a bag, or partitioning is not what I mean.

Deacon, I read a very alarming article that was claiming many urban super markets have been "tinkering" with the alleged "fresh butchered meats" they sell in the meat sections, such as using chemicals and sprays and other means to make meat that is not as fresh as they claim, look fresher than it is, at the expense of the health of the consumer. Not good. Also read about "meat glue" that is an organic meat based adhesive that some have used to glue pieces of meat together to make it seem as if one is getting a solid piece of meat.

Supposedly in Europe the EU prohibits companies from doing that.

it is mostly forbidden, but some brands and supermarkets still do it, oftentimes receiving a severe fee or economical loss when discovered. :p
They play with gas, light, and other layered additives to "freshen up" meat and fish to make it look more recent and attractive to buyers

Thank you, this is great news about certain canned foods, such as tomatoes.

One of my favorite foods is to take corn tortilla chips and cover them in the crushed tomatoes from the can, and then cover that in layers of cheese, beans, meat, and other toppings. Have you ever had that or anything like it?

[ThePeacent]

Thank you, this is great news about certain canned foods, such as tomatoes.

One of my favorite foods is to take corn tortilla chips and cover them in the crushed tomatoes from the can, and then cover that in layers of cheese, beans, meat, and other toppings. Have you ever had that or anything like it?

well I've had many Nachos with Guacamole, chili sauce. tomato spicy sauce, Quesadillas and also Taquitos/Burritos with beans, frijoles, chicken, cheese, and several other stuffings in them, especially when I went to Mexican restaurants as a kid if that counts :p

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burrito
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taquito