"Domestic Chauvanism"?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What are your opinions about purchasing products made in nations not your own? I see no problem with it. I look at the actual item, whether it be a knife, a watch, a food item, or clothes or whatever else. If it is quality and I am able to, I would get it.

One reason I bring this matter up is because I was having a conversation with a man and I told him how I like Spyderco, Cold Steel, and other knives, including regional knives made in nations such as Spain (Navajas) and France (Opinels).

His response was that it is "nearly traitorous" and cruel to people from your particular nation if you purchase goods made by other nations. I found that to be ridiculous, but, he is free to his opinion. When I told him Spyderco in particular makes knives both in Golden, Colorado, USA, and, knives made in places such as Japan and Taiwan and even mainland China, his response was that "No American who loves his country should be purchasing knives or other products made elsewhere." He thinks its okay to buy a Spyderco model made in Golden, but, if you buy say a Byrd made in China, or, an Endura made in Japan, you are "under cutting American workers." "Buy American, buy local." I asked him if he believes that applies to the people of other nations, ie, should a Chinese person or a Spanish person or a Swiss person refuse to buy American or Italian or French goods and I received no answer. It was almost like a double standard.

What are your opinions of such an attitude?

Like myself, do you go more for whether the particular product is well-made and serves your purpose and that you can get, as opposed to the nation, or how do you like to pick them?

[The Mastiff]

When young and living in Michigan the United Auto Workers were militantly against foreign cars and would vandalize them when they found them parked with no one around. I never had it happen at home even though most all my neighbors were UAW people from plants now long gone along with their jobs.

I'm not rich enough to be picky. I will spend my money on the best products I can get . If they are American, good. If not? Oh Well. I am very patriotic and would not have a problem giving my life to defend our country but I believe if I have money I should be able to spend it as I like. There is no reason I can see to buy something inferior because of where it is made.

joe

[SpyderEdgeForever]

When young and living in Michigan the United Auto Workers were militantly against foreign cars and would vandalize them when they found them parked with no one around. I never had it happen at home even though most all my neighbors were UAW people from plants now long gone along with their jobs.

I'm not rich enough to be picky. I will spend my money on the best products I can get . If they are American, good. If not? Oh Well. I am very patriotic and would not have a problem giving my life to defend our country but I believe if I have money I should be able to spend it as I like. There is no reason I can see to buy something inferior because of where it is made.

joe

This is a very excellent point, thank you.

Regarding the people vandalizing foreign-made cars, what was the answer or counter measure that owners of such cars were able to resort to, to protect their cars from vandalism? Or there wasn't?

[Daveho]

Couldn’t care if the person making things I use is in the same country or is the same colour as me-
End of the day everyone needs to eat, work and live.
Deliver Value and you get my business basically.

[The Deacon]

As a general rule, I don't care where most things are made. Food is a different matter, I try to avoid eating anything "made in China" or feeding it to Bear. I don't see that as chauvinism, just caution caused by too many cases of adulterated food products for both humans and animals from there. On the other hand, there's one item that I wish I could be more selective about where it came from, and that's gasoline. Call me a bigot, but I don't like the idea that I may be indirectly funding Islamic terrorists.

[tvenuto]

Does your "friend" have a phone? If so he is either delusional or hypocritical, 'cause that sure ain't made here. And that's just for starters.

I agree with Mastiff, the consumer should make the best choice for them. It's up to others to ensure that the environment that consumers encounter allows them to make good decisions. I know "government regulation" is a dirty phrase in our "free market economy" but in many cases it is very necessary to avoid abuses and predatory practices that could destroy necessary local industries.

As an example, like Deacon alluded to, China has been attempting to flood the US with fake honey. If we don't have regulatory bodies to differentiate fake honey from real honey, consumers will flock towards what they think is cheap real honey. They think they are making a good financial decision which is wrong due to hidden information. Now, because it's obviously impossible to make real honey locally at a competitive price, US apiaries would start to close, and eventually there would be very little real honey anywhere to buy. Either that, or consumers begin to distrust the honey in general, and stop buying it, which is equally disastrous for apiaries. In this case, the lack of apiaries would affect other industries as well, which rely on the bee populations to pollinate the plants.

[Evil D]

SEF you seem to have a lot of conversations with really strange people. Or maybe it's just one person I dunno.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

As a general rule, I don't care where most things are made. Food is a different matter, I try to avoid eating anything "made in China" or feeding it to Bear. I don't see that as chauvinism, just caution caused by too many cases of adulterated food products for both humans and animals from there. On the other hand, there's one item that I wish I could be more selective about where it came from, and that's gasoline. Call me a bigot, but I don't like the idea that I may be indirectly funding Islamic terrorists.

This is a very good point that I really wish more people understood. I am glad you have that policy, Deacon. Sadly, I knew a person who had a beautiful and very lovable pet dog that died, and the belief was that the dog died as a direct result of eating the toxic dog food that was imported from China; the whole melamine issue where they were caught adding melamine plastics into dog foods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_pet_food_recalls

Until there is greater oversight and control to make sure the human and pet foods being consumed are truly safe and edible, I think consumers need tor really "ride" these companies and groups and make sure there is no deception.

That being said, again, I do not discriminate where a particular item is made as long as it is safe, affordable, and good quality. But like you, Deacon, I do have ethics issues and will not purchase from companies that I know are funding enemies and who are lying to consumers and deceiving people.

Great post, thank you.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Does your "friend" have a phone? If so he is either delusional or hypocritical, 'cause that sure ain't made here. And that's just for starters.

I agree with Mastiff, the consumer should make the best choice for them. It's up to others to ensure that the environment that consumers encounter allows them to make good decisions. I know "government regulation" is a dirty phrase in our "free market economy" but in many cases it is very necessary to avoid abuses and predatory practices that could destroy necessary local industries.

As an example, like Deacon alluded to, China has been attempting to flood the US with fake honey. If we don't have regulatory bodies to differentiate fake honey from real honey, consumers will flock towards what they think is cheap real honey. They think they are making a good financial decision which is wrong due to hidden information. Now, because it's obviously impossible to make real honey locally at a competitive price, US apiaries would start to close, and eventually there would be very little real honey anywhere to buy. Either that, or consumers begin to distrust the honey in general, and stop buying it, which is equally disastrous for apiaries. In this case, the lack of apiaries would affect other industries as well, which rely on the bee populations to pollinate the plants.

Also a very good point. Infact, what are some ways that you know of that we can distinguish between genuine real honey and fake honey made with additives? I was told by someone that a scary fact, according to them, is that some of the legitimate companies who produce honey, while not adding materials that could kill or make a human sick, still add "Edible Fillers" such as thickened corn syrup, which is a deceptive practice and is not right. This person told me that a large percentage of honey we have consumed is sugar and corn syrup.

I have also read that there is FAKE RICE being exported from China.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

SEF you seem to have a lot of conversations with really strange people. Or maybe it's just one person I dunno.

Yup. Sometimes what it is is that I want to hear strange and unusual opinions and viewpoints on these and other topics and I reach out to people and ask them such questions, so I can find out as much as I can about various worldviews and ideas on things.

Some of the real extreme ones who are anti knife I then tend not to want to communicate with anymore, if possible, unless I think I can convince them to be pro knife. One such person told me he believes no one in their "right mind" has any business or use for a knife with a blade over two inches. That was pretty extreme if you ask me. I asked him why this is and he said "Because any knife with a blade over two inches is a dangerous deadly weapon and can kill people and knives under two inches are not lethal enough to kill someone easilly."

That seems like a very messed up opinion though he is free to believe what he wants.

[tvenuto]

There was actually quite the cat and mouse game with the fake honey. Apparently we developed a simple test that detected the particular kind of syrup they were using, so they switched, and it required a much more involved test. As far as a consumer telling, I don't think that's possible.

The issue is that in industrial food packaging honey comes from many different places and gets mixed together to create a consistent product. Of course, each "packaging house" is very protective of their reputation and only want to package the pure stuff. Unfortunately they can't test every single batch that comes in, so they have to trust their suppliers. If I remember correctly when we stopped buying Chinese honey, Taiwan miraculously had 10x as much honey to sell. Of course, it's possible that unscrupulous packaging houses are out there doing this but that's probably an exception to the rule. I recommend watching the docuseries "Rotten" on netflix because they cover the honey issue pretty well.

Another solution is to buy from local apiaries, which is what we do. We have a farmer's market down the road that has local honey. Food is not an area I try to save money on.

[MichaelScott]

SEF, ask your friend is he is willing to pay $50,000 for his next economy car, $7000 for his next TV, $10,000 for his phone and see his grocery bill explode.

[tvenuto]

Good points. Regarding the food, does he like being able to get produce, such as an orange, all the time? This is not normal, and relies on us getting food from other countries.

[supracor]

I hate Italian cutlery, and italian cutlery forums also.

[tvenuto]

I hate Italian cutlery, and italian cutlery forums also.

[The Mastiff]

Regarding the people vandalizing foreign-made cars, what was the answer or counter measure that owners of such cars were able to resort to, to protect their cars from vandalism? Or there wasn't?

Other than not parking where there were groups of them were, no. We just were careful where we parked. Sort of like areas of the city that someone avoids when they are able. I actually bought an old Chevy truck to use when going to areas of the city near the GM plants or when I went to them for business. That was the time they were just beginning to lay off workers ( late 70's to early 80's). The auto workers lived well compared to most of us and had for decades. They saw that was coming to an end and when someones world is threatened some react. I never had anyone threaten me personally with violence so I understood and didn't take it personally.

joe

[OldHoosier62]

When young and living in Michigan the United Auto Workers were militantly against foreign cars and would vandalize them when they found them parked with no one around. I never had it happen at home even though most all my neighbors were UAW people from plants now long gone along with their jobs.

I'm not rich enough to be picky. I will spend my money on the best products I can get . If they are American, good. If not? Oh Well. I am very patriotic and would not have a problem giving my life to defend our country but I believe if I have money I should be able to spend it as I like. There is no reason I can see to buy something inferior because of where it is made.

joe

Same here in Indiana. Dad worked for GM and anyone who dared drive an import to the plant usually found it vandalized and undrivable when they returned.

[MichaelScott]

Hmmmm… wonder where the vandals found work when their plants closed? A Toyota factory?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I hate Italian cutlery, and italian cutlery forums also.

With all due respect to you and your personal opinions on that, what is the root cause of this hate for their cutlery? I ask because so far from what I have seen, Italian knife makers such as Mac Coltellerie and Antonino Knives, use good carbon and stainless steel, good quality handle and sheath materials, and have a good overall fit and finish, at least from what I can see.

Each company is different in how they produce and finish their knives. Look at Fox Cutlery. Alot of these companies work out of Maniago, Italy, which is historically and world-reknowned for quality steel, akin to Toledo and Albacete for Spain and Solingen for Germany, and Sheffield for England.

The one criticism I do have in regards to some of the cheaper knives is that they do feel a bit "overly lightweight" in the steel, but I am sure a thicker blade would fix that.

Spyderco, infact, as far as I know, and I am open to correction on this, has sold some models manufactured in Italy.

Here are some of the Italian knife maker websites for you and others to examine:

http://www.mac-coltellerie.it/

http://www.mac-coltellerie.it/en/catego ... tdoor.html

http://www.antoniniknives.com/

[Daveho]

I hate Italian cutlery, and italian cutlery forums also.

With all due respect to you and your personal opinions on that, what is the root cause of this hate for their cutlery? I ask because so far from what I have seen, Italian knife makers such as Mac Coltellerie and Antonino Knives, use good carbon and stainless steel, good quality handle and sheath materials, and have a good overall fit and finish, at least from what I can see.

Each company is different in how they produce and finish their knives. Look at Fox Cutlery. Alot of these companies work out of Maniago, Italy, which is historically and world-reknowned for quality steel, akin to Toledo and Albacete for Spain and Solingen for Germany, and Sheffield for England.

The one criticism I do have in regards to some of the cheaper knives is that they do feel a bit "overly lightweight" in the steel, but I am sure a thicker blade would fix that.

Spyderco, infact, as far as I know, and I am open to correction on this, has sold some models manufactured in Italy.

Here are some of the Italian knife maker websites for you and others to examine:

http://www.mac-coltellerie.it/

http://www.mac-coltellerie.it/en/catego ... tdoor.html

http://www.antoniniknives.com/

Roadie