Let's Talk About SNAKES Shall we?

[JD Spydo]

Well this is a subject that has fascinated and to some degree has instilled fear in me since I was knee high to a Coca-Cola bottle :cool: . I'm speaking of those creatures that the Good Lord condemned to be confined to slither on the ground and maybe climb a tree occasionally. SNAKES have always fascinated and to a degree caused me a bit of fear all my life. I don't fear them like I used to when I was younger>> I actually find them more intriguing the older I get.
Our good Brother BLOKE lives in a land where the 10 most deadly SNAKES on the planet reside :eek: . BLOKE's fellow Countryman The Late Brother Steve Irwin used to blow my mind on a regular basis with the talent he had for handling these coils of death and making it even look easy :eek: . Since his untimely demise I've had to rely on Austin Stevens of South Africa and celebrated herpetologist Mark O'Shea for my reptile entertainment.
Here in the USA we sure have our share of SNAKES but none quite as deadly as those of Australia, Africa and Southest Asia which are the 3 major hotbeds of "Quick Death" :eek: .
We only have Two neurotoxic SNAKEs here in North America and those are the eastern and southwestern Coral snakes. And a bite from those reclusive beauties are quite rare ( Thank GOD). So I would like to take this time for all of us to tell our stories and share our personal knowledge about our lifetime encounter of SNAKES. And I'm willing to bet that some of you all probably know a great deal about them. OK I think I hear them hissing and rattling already :D

[Doc Dan]

Okay, you asked for it. Snakes are useful critters. When I was a kid I used to catch snakes, lots of snakes. Once, I went to a baseball game with a friend and on the way we cut through the woods and found two very large Rat Snakes making babies. We caught them and they wrapped themselves around us as they will do. We got to the game and it was so crowded there were no seats and even the fence was packed. We walked up to the fence crowd, tapped a guy on the shoulder with the snake's head and said, "Excuse me, do you know what time it is?" In a couple seconds we had the whole thing to ourselves. HaHaHa!

[The Meat man]

Great topic idea JD.

I like snakes. My brothers and I used to keep pet garter snakes when we were growing up. I think they're some of the most fascinating creatures on the planet! They have such amazing beauty and variety.

I have a pet ball python and I'll tell you, it is about the lowest maintenance pet in existence. Feed it once a week, keep its water fresh, and that's about it.

Even though I like snakes there is such a thing as too many snakes. Ever hear of Snake Island? It's a small island off the coast of Brazil. There are so many poisonous snakes (Golden Fer-de-lance) there that the island has been closed off to the public by the Brazilian Navy. The snake density in some areas averages about one snake per square meter! :eek:

[Evil D]

I grew up outside either in the woods or in a creek/river so snakes have been part of my life for most of it. It's easy enough to just avoid them and they'll leave you alone. Or, at least the ones that are native to Ohio/Kentucky haven't been aggressive enough to chase or attack me. My uncle had a python when I was a kid but my grandmother accidentally drown it one day by putting his aquarium outside and he got rained on (secured lid on the tank).

[tvenuto]

Great topic idea JD.

I like snakes. My brothers and I used to keep pet garter snakes when we were growing up. I think they're some of the most fascinating creatures on the planet! They have such amazing beauty and variety.

I have a pet ball python and I'll tell you, it is about the lowest maintenance pet in existence. Feed it once a week, keep its water fresh, and that's about it.

Even though I like snakes there is such a thing as too many snakes. Ever hear of Snake Island? It's a small island off the coast of Brazil. There are so many poisonous snakes (Golden Fer-de-lance) there that the island has been closed off to the public by the Brazilian Navy. The snake density in some areas averages about one snake per square meter! :eek:

I saw a thing about that island. What’s more, the snakes prey primarily on birds that land there, so they’ve developed a much more potent venom to prevent a struck bird from dying too far away from them. I like snakes, with one understanding: I don’t hang out long in their home and they afford me the same courtesy.

[JD Spydo]

Great topic idea JD.

I like snakes. My brothers and I used to keep pet garter snakes when we were growing up. I think they're some of the most fascinating creatures on the planet! They have such amazing beauty and variety.

I have a pet ball python and I'll tell you, it is about the lowest maintenance pet in existence. Feed it once a week, keep its water fresh, and that's about it.

Even though I like snakes there is such a thing as too many snakes. Ever hear of Snake Island? It's a small island off the coast of Brazil. There are so many poisonous snakes (Golden Fer-de-lance) there that the island has been closed off to the public by the Brazilian Navy. The snake density in some areas averages about one snake per square meter! :eek:

I know exactly the island you are talking about. Because Mark O'Shea and Austin Stevens both have done shows on that island off of the coast of Brazil and both of them did a lot of extensive studying of that unique species of snake on that island as well>> which is known as the GOLDEN-Lancehead. The species of snake on that island are not the Fer-De Lance like many people think but it is a pit viper that is related to the Fer De Lance. That island from what they can determine is the only place on the planet that particular species of snake even exists. And they are a very venomous snake although they are not as toxic as the Fer-De-Lance because the venom that the Fer-De-Lance has is one of the most cytotoxic on the entire planet.

Most people that are bitten by the Fer-De-Lance usually lose their legs, arms, hands ect>> They usually lose the body part that is bitten unless they can get anti-venom really fast. Even Steve Irwin was very respectful of the Fer De Lance and I never saw him even handle one of those like he did most of the other snakes he worked with. That Fer-De-Lance is a cousin to our North American Rattlesnakes and all of their associated sub-species of pit vipers in that gene pool. The Fer-De-Lance even among herpotologists is very feared and respected. They are even considered more toxic than the very feared "Puff Adder" which also are responsible for a lot of lost human limbs.

[JD Spydo]

I grew up outside either in the woods or in a creek/river so snakes have been part of my life for most of it. It's easy enough to just avoid them and they'll leave you alone. Or, at least the ones that are native to Ohio/Kentucky haven't been aggressive enough to chase or attack me. My uncle had a python when I was a kid but my grandmother accidentally drown it one day by putting his aquarium outside and he got rained on (secured lid on the tank).

Well dude I'm pretty much aware of the venomous snake species that are found in your state of Kentucky. I have relatives in Mississippi, Tennessee and Louisiana and they have most of the species your state has. Now your wonderful state does have a hefty population of Cottonmouth Water Moccasins :eek: They are an extremely venomous pit viper with a super toxic hemotoxin which is very similar to the venom most rattlesnakes have>> however make note of the fact that the Cottonmouth delivers a huge amount of venom when they bite. When I've been to Kentucky I've seen those Cottonmouths, Copperheads and Rattlers. Like most southern states they have a climate and dense timber and swampy environment that really supports pit vipers especially. As far as I know you all don't have any coral snakes like most of those Southern states do.

But the Cottonmouth is a dangerous, aggressive pit viper which must be taken very seriously.

[The Meat man]

I know exactly the island you are talking about. Because Mark O'Shea and Austin Stevens both have done shows on that island off of the coast of Brazil and both of them did a lot of extensive studying of that unique species of snake on that island as well>> which is known as the GOLDEN-Lancehead...

Yes, I was mistaken. It's been awhile since I read about it.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Some snake questions:

1 Why is it so difficult for human science to produce anti venoms for not only all snake venoms but also other toxic venoms used by other creatures? Does it boil down to the molecular complexity issue again, since these venoms are complex molecular proteins and other molecules?

2 Do pet snakes actually have affection towards their owners/keepers like cats and dogs and other pets do or do they look to the keeper/owner as a source of food and warmth?

3 I have been told by a survival-trainer that some snake species will aggressively chase after a person if you try to run away from them, while others will flee from you. Is there any truth to this that you know of and how can you determine which type of snake would do this?

[The Mastiff]

Cottonmouth is one that will chase a person. I had one chase me out of the water and up a bank. I kept going for a while so I'm unsure exactly when it gave up the chase. I was swimming in the Niobara in Nebraska when a guy threw something at the snake from where he was up on a bridge we were building. The snake thought I did it. I then chased the guy that threw the bolt at the snake. It must have looked like something from the Benny Hill show. :)

Joe

[Tdog]

Unless I find a venomous snake close to the house I usually leave them alone. Through the years I've had numerous run-ins with different snakes. My wife called me one day when she walked down to get the mail. "Get the gun" there was a 5' rattlesnake which I popped. Wondered why it didn't move as I got near. (Had just eaten a squirrel) Mounted it on a 1x and some years later gave it away. Opened my barn door one day and a 3' rat snake dropped on my head....quite the rush. Opened my garage door one morning and there was a small rattlesnake 18" inside. Dispatched it with a shovel. Years ago was shad fishing with my dad and grandfather, had a moccasin try to get in the boat, they are definitely not afraid of humans. Agree with Joe, best to steer clear of these.
Also years ago, found a coral snake on our dirt road and put it in a coffee can. Put it in the back of my ole 69 beetle to show folks at work. When I got to work, the can was on it's side lid missing. Searched thru the car and never did find the snake. :eek: Sometimes rusted floorboards have their redeeming qualities. :D Funny how one can forget many things but encounters with snakes are remembered. Perhaps strangest story was when I was going to school at Brevard Community College in Merritt Island. Fl. One Saturday morning my neighbor called me over to his rental apt. for a beverage. I recall it was a CC and coke. We were listening to music when a rattlesnake crawled out from under his couch. We both freaked and he went to get his gun. By the time he returned, the snake had gone back under the couch. We dragged that couch into the yard, poured some gas on it and, up on flames she went. Snake didn't come out until the couch was nearly consumed. 12 guage worked it's magic. Florida has it's share of snakes, wouldn't want to run into this guy: http://www.jacksonville.com/article/200 ... /801227164 :p

[JD Spydo]

Well "Tdoy" one snake that the state of Florida has quite a few of and that being the main one you are speaking of which is the ever-so-feared Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake :eek: I've heard of those bad-boys getting up to around 10 feet in length and they have a really thick body too. They are the largest, indigenous venomous snake in the USA. They also have huge reserves of venom so if you're ever unfortunate enough to get tagged by a Eastern Diamondback I can't stress enough that you need medical attention ASAP.

That Eastern Diamondback is also found in Georgia, Alabama, and in my mother's home state of Mississippi as well as a few sightings in Louisiana. From what I've been told you don't get very many dry bites from that snake.

Your state of Florida also has the horrible problem of many people's pet snakes getting away because of hurricane damage and really bright people :mad: letting them go into the wild and adapting into the wild. They not only now have several species of constrictors like many of the Boa and Python variants but it's also been confirmed that there are a few of the really bad neurotoxic snakes like Mambas, Kraits and a few of the Cobra species that were made free from the ravages of the hurricanes that destroyed the "Serpentarium" and some other scientific facilities where those exotic snakes had been kept in captivity for scientific research. Unfortunately Florida has an environment where many of those exotic species can actually thrive and so of them have multiplied throughout the Everglades and other swampy regions.

Many of the big constrictors are even eating the alligators and other indigenous wildlife down there. Yeah Florida has some serious snake problems as we speak.

[Evil D]

But the Cottonmouth is a dangerous, aggressive pit viper which must be taken very seriously.

I've never come across one. It could just be that they aren't native to the areas I've lived, or maybe I'm just lucky.

I did find this kind of interesting...

There are only three venomous, or poisonous, snakes in Ohio. These are the Eastern timber rattlesnake, northern copperhead, and the massasauga rattlesnake.

Every year people claim to see the dangerous water moccasin, also known as cottonmouth, in Ohio's waters. They are actually encountering the harmless Northern water snake.

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Venomous_Snakes


Realistically it could also just be that I have come across them but was too young and ignorant to know any better. I was a bit of a "Steve Irwin" when I was younger, nothing really scared me out in the woods. It's probably a miracle that I never came across anything like a bear or mountain lion because I would have tried to pet it and probably died.

[JD Spydo]

Now that really has me scratching my head about the "Massasauga Rattlesnake" :confused: ?? Because I was told by an agent ( Game Warden) of the Missouri Dept. Of Conservation that particular snake was only found in the state of Missouri. And when the National Geographic of all TV shows even said as much when they did a special on that sub-species of Rattlesnake. That is really strange?? We also have those Timber Rattlers here and they get big and sometimes really mean. But the two Timber Rattlers I encountered in the woods were both kind of docile :confused: ? And they they wanted to get away from me ASAP. But I've had farmers here in the STATE of MO tell me that they encountered some really mean Timber Rattlers>> I just don't know for sure.

We also have a lot of those Northern Water Snakes you made mention of. We also have two other common, non-venomous water snakes which are abundant throughout the state. The Black Rat Snakes we have here in Missouri get really big and when you walk up on one in the woods it can put a pretty bad scare in you because of their size and they do act somewhat aggressive too. Believe it or not people have made pets out of those Black Rat Snakes.

But those Black Rat snakes are beneficial snakes. You won't find Rattlers or Copperheads where the Black Rat Snake is abundant. Also farmers like to put them in barns to keep the rats and mice away>> and it works too.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Man, what incredible pics and also encounters!

I would say the closest potentially deadly interaction I ever had with a snake, was when I was hiking in California many years ago, and I was climbing up a somewhat steep and rocky hillside, which had several ledges or outcroppings with full sunlight shining down on them. As I neared one of the ledges, I suddenly hear that telltale rattling....and sure enough it was a medium-sized rattle snake like a few feet long curled up there sunning itself. I slowly backed away and went back down; that took most of the fun out of the hiking LOL! But it could have ended up worse so I am thankful.

What about this? I was told that with certain species of venomous snakes the babies/younger ones have more potent venom than the elder snakes. Does that sound real or no?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Cottonmouth is one that will chase a person. I had one chase me out of the water and up a bank. I kept going for a while so I'm unsure exactly when it gave up the chase. I was swimming in the Niobara in Nebraska when a guy threw something at the snake from where he was up on a bridge we were building. The snake thought I did it. I then chased the guy that threw the bolt at the snake. It must have looked like something from the Benny Hill show. :)

Joe

Joe and others, what about those snake "gaiters" that some camping outfits sell? Are those good defense against getting bitten? What other clothing would you recommend if someone is in an area known to have venomous snakes? A veteran friend of mine claimed the old-style military issue leather boots were snake proof, unless the snake bit the person in the exposed calf or other flesh.

Here is a website I found that is selling Snake Boots:

https://www.academy.com/shop/browse/foo ... nake-boots

[JD Spydo]

Man, what incredible pics and also encounters!

I would say the closest potentially deadly interaction I ever had with a snake, was when I was hiking in California many years ago, and I was climbing up a somewhat steep and rocky hillside, which had several ledges or outcroppings with full sunlight shining down on them. As I neared one of the ledges, I suddenly hear that telltale rattling....and sure enough it was a medium-sized rattle snake like a few feet long curled up there sunning itself. I slowly backed away and went back down; that took most of the fun out of the hiking LOL! But it could have ended up worse so I am thankful.

What about this? I was told that with certain species of venomous snakes the babies/younger ones have more potent venom than the elder snakes. Does that sound real or no?

On your last question I actually did ask a Missouri Dept of Conservation agent ( game warden) that same question>> this agent was also highly educated in herpetology ( study of reptiles and amphibians) and he said that was nothing more than a rumor that grew legs years ago. He said in most cases that any venomous snake bite had a lot of variables to it. He said that about 10 to 12% of all snake bites here in Missouri ended up being dry bites in many cases in which very little or no venom was injected. He also stated that it had to do with each individual's resistance to certain venoms>> whereas if you were highly allergic to it you were probably in trouble no matter how little you got.

He did go on to say that the "Western Cottonmouth" ( Missouri's venomous Water Moccasin) was dangerous for two reasons>> first it has a hemotoxic venom which is high on the charts as well as the fact that the Cottonmouth usually hits you with a very big dose of it as a general rule. He also stated that Missouri's Timber Rattlesnake has also been known for injecting large quantities of venom at times.

Again I just thank GOD above that we only have one snake here in the USA that is neurotoxic ( the venom attacks your central nervous system :eek: ) and those types of venoms are very dangerous for several reasons. First and foremost it can shut your heart and lungs down pretty quickly if you don't get anti-venom ASAP.

[The Mastiff]

The gaiters and snake boots are good for what they are but for whatever reason many seem to get bit on the fingers, hands etc. Dogs are always eager to sniff whatever they run across so the muzzle area is a common target on dogs when they are bit. I've been close but never bit so a least the snakes I've run across were more eager to just be left alone than bite.

I've heard that the juvenile snakes will often pump more venom so it's that rather than any difference in venom strength that causes that. I am no expert though. If you need information about English mastiffs, Parson Jack Russells or German Shepards I might be more use. :)

joe

[Doc Dan]

Some snake questions:

1 Why is it so difficult for human science to produce anti venoms for not only all snake venoms but also other toxic venoms used by other creatures? Does it boil down to the molecular complexity issue again, since these venoms are complex molecular proteins and other molecules?

2 Do pet snakes actually have affection towards their owners/keepers like cats and dogs and other pets do or do they look to the keeper/owner as a source of food and warmth?

3 I have been told by a survival-trainer that some snake species will aggressively chase after a person if you try to run away from them, while others will flee from you. Is there any truth to this that you know of and how can you determine which type of snake would do this?

There has been a documented case where a cottonmouth actually stalked a man to seek revenge. They will chase you. They are like cobras in that respect. Of course this varies from one snake personality to another. I do not know, but I have heard that mambas are aggressive like that and so are taipans.

[Doc Dan]

When I was a kid, I used to help my uncle catch rattle snakes because I think he could sell them. He was a farmer. In the winter we would find a gopher tortoise hole, run a hose down inside, and blow gasoline fumes into it. Soon the snakes would come out, very sluggish because of the cold, and we would sack them up. Scares me now that I think about it.