Let's Talk About SNAKES Shall we?

[Bloke]

That's incredible Doc! :cool:

Our snakes don't wear hats. :)

[JD Spydo]

Those are some great and very informative links on southeast asian snakes you shared with us SEF. You bet I've heard a lot about spitting cobras!! That was one snake that even the late, great Steve Irwin had some problems with. I don't even recall of him ever even handling one of those Spitters. The Spitting Cobra poses a lot of problems that even the best herpetologists have few solutions for. Also there is a lot of hype and false claims about these so called "two-step" or three step snakes. Because even the most neurotoxic snake can't even kill a person in less than two hours in most cases. Even those who are killed that quickly by neurotoxic snakes are the exception rather than the rule.

Those are some great links and that is a really nice list of those Thailand and Viet Nam snakes. I was surprised to see that Japan had as many venomous snakes as they do. Because of all the snake TV shows I've seen on Animal Planet, Discovery, NAT GEO, and various other nature type shows I had not ever even seen a show on Japan's snakes. And I always thought I knew my snakes at least fairly well :o . But the subject of herpetology is far more vast than I ever imagined.

I'm wondering if there aren't more snakes yet to identify? Reason being about 8 years ago when I was still doing some work in North Missouri Wetlands I found a snake that had been run over by a car on a remote country road. It had a large, arrowhead shaped head and when I opened it's mouth it most definitely had a set of hollowed fangs but I had never seen or encountered one like that before. It was a dark grayish with a somewhat blueish tint and it had a wide middle body like a Rattler or Cottonmouth. I took it back and showed it to several people who lived in that area including a Conservation Agent and no one knew what type of snake it was :confused: But it was most definitely venomous and it looked like it was in the pit viper family but I looked at several books on snakes and to this day I don't know what it was :confused: . With that said I'm wondering if we still know all the snakes we have here in North America much less all the snakes they have in jungles, deserts and other hostile environments.

[Doc Dan]

Those are some great and very informative links on southeast asian snakes you shared with us SEF. You bet I've heard a lot about spitting cobras!! That was one snake that even the late, great Steve Irwin had some problems with. I don't even recall of him ever even handling one of those Spitters. The Spitting Cobra poses a lot of problems that even the best herpetologists have few solutions for. Also there is a lot of hype and false claims about these so called "two-step" or three step snakes. Because even the most neurotoxic snake can't even kill a person in less than two hours in most cases. Even those who are killed that quickly by neurotoxic snakes are the exception rather than the rule.

Those are some great links and that is a really nice list of those Thailand and Viet Nam snakes. I was surprised to see that Japan had as many venomous snakes as they do. Because of all the snake TV shows I've seen on Animal Planet, Discovery, NAT GEO, and various other nature type shows I had not ever even seen a show on Japan's snakes. And I always thought I knew my snakes at least fairly well :o . But the subject of herpetology is far more vast than I ever imagined.

I'm wondering if there aren't more snakes yet to identify? Reason being about 8 years ago when I was still doing some work in North Missouri Wetlands I found a snake that had been run over by a car on a remote country road. It had a large, arrowhead shaped head and when I opened it's mouth it most definitely had a set of hollowed fangs but I had never seen or encountered one like that before. It was a dark grayish with a somewhat blueish tint and it had a wide middle body like a Rattler or Cottonmouth. I took it back and showed it to several people who lived in that area including a Conservation Agent and no one knew what type of snake it was :confused: But it was most definitely venomous and it looked like it was in the pit viper family but I looked at several books on snakes and to this day I don't know what it was :confused: . With that said I'm wondering if we still know all the snakes we have here in North America much less all the snakes they have in jungles, deserts and other hostile environments.

Likely it was a "pet" someone let loose, or got loose. There are a few exotic vipers with a similar coloration as that.

[JD Spydo]

Well I'll tell you Doc Dan that it was definitely a type of pit viper and it was for sure Venomous. We even took a high powered magnifying glass and it was evident that the fangs were hollowed as all venomous snakes are.

If that was a pet that someone let loose it blows me away from the aspect that the odds of it being run over on the road in that remote of an area are astronomical at the very least. Only maybe 5 cars a week go down that road I was describing. The snake was about 18 inches long in total length and I have seen just about every snake that this State of Missouri has to offer but I had never seen one that even looked anything like this one. Darn good thing nobody got bit by it because they would have had no idea which anti-venom to use :eek: And that's a big problem throughout the country for people that have exotic, dangerous pets like that. I had a neighbor years ago who actually did have a Black Mamba that he kept in his house. I'm willing to bet that you couldn't even get anti-venom in the entire Kansas City area in case of an unforeseen bite were to occur unless it was flown in by emergency. Or Unless our Swope Park Zoo might have had some on hand because they have some reptile exhibits.

And how do you make someone liable for pets that they discard into the wild? Personally I think they need to look at outlawing any snakes for pets. Just look at what it has done to the southern part of Florida for instance. I've heard that those exotic pythons and several other exotic species that once were pets are truly breeding like rats down there in southern Florida and have almost taken over parts of the Everglades.

[The Meat man]

Personally I think they need to look at outlawing any snakes for pets. Just look at what it has done to the southern part of Florida for instance. I've heard that those exotic pythons and several other exotic species that once were pets are truly breeding like rats down there in southern Florida and have almost taken over parts of the Everglades.

While I would be very much opposed to such a ban , I do recognize the problems released or escaped pets can pose. I've read a lot about the Burmese Python problem that is going on in Florida and you are absolutely right, they are breeding in the wild now and I've read that there are an estimated 100,000 in the wild by now. The problem actually first started in the 70's but it has gotten a lot worse recently.

People need to take responsibility for their pets, and make sure they are kept secure. Also, don't buy a snake that grows to 16 feet long unless you are prepared to care for it.

[JD Spydo]

Personally I think they need to look at outlawing any snakes for pets. Just look at what it has done to the southern part of Florida for instance. I've heard that those exotic pythons and several other exotic species that once were pets are truly breeding like rats down there in southern Florida and have almost taken over parts of the Everglades.

While I would be very much opposed to such a ban , I do recognize the problems released or escaped pets can pose. I've read a lot about the Burmese Python problem that is going on in Florida and you are absolutely right, they are breeding in the wild now and I've read that there are an estimated 100,000 in the wild by now. The problem actually first started in the 70's but it has gotten a lot worse recently.

People need to take responsibility for their pets, and make sure they are kept secure. Also, don't buy a snake that grows to 16 feet long unless you are prepared to care for it.

Well "Meat Man" even though I mildly sort of disagree with you I will admit that you've made some valid points. Now the spread of the constrictor type snakes like the pythons, anacondas and boas are to where you could eventually cure that problem. But what I'm really afraid of with Florida would be if one or more breeding pairs of Black Mambas, Spitting Cobras, Kraits or any number of extremely dangerous snakes would escape. And if they started breeding profusely into the wild and breed at the same or similar rate as the pythons evidently have I do believe we would have a horrible disaster on our hands :eek:

Because so far the United States has not had to deal with extremely dangerous, neurotoxic snakes like the ones I just mentioned. I knew a guy at one time who was a herpetologist for a University here in our area and he told me that a lot of these snakes from Southeast Asia, Australia and the Indonesian archepelago are so dangerous to work with and could be a nightmare if they got started breeding here in the USA. Now places in the states that have bitter winters like anything mostly north of Florida would more than likely be too cold for them come winter time and they would die off that way. But in most of the state of Florida is warm enough to where they would flourish and multiply rapidly. And GOD forbid!! if a little kid were to get bit by one of those neurotoxic snakes they would most likely be dead very shortly after the bite. Because most people have no idea how super deadly some of those exotic, neurotoxic snakes are.

Now from a Constitutional and personal liberty standpoint I guess I'll go ahead and side with you on that point because I'm a firm believer in the wonderful provisions that our precious Constitution and Bill Of Rights has granted us here in the USA. And for that reason I could go with something like making the pet owner be licensed and fully responsible in the event that a dangerous snake were to get loose. I personally hate tobacco or smoking of any type but I will fight to the death for my fellow American to have personal liberties to partake if they are a responsible adult. Yeah I think you're more right than wrong because I would rather error on the side of personal liberty>> but with liberty comes responsibility. I do appreciate your honesty MEAT MAN and I"ve enjoyed many of your posts :)

[The Meat man]

Personally I think they need to look at outlawing any snakes for pets. Just look at what it has done to the southern part of Florida for instance. I've heard that those exotic pythons and several other exotic species that once were pets are truly breeding like rats down there in southern Florida and have almost taken over parts of the Everglades.

While I would be very much opposed to such a ban , I do recognize the problems released or escaped pets can pose. I've read a lot about the Burmese Python problem that is going on in Florida and you are absolutely right, they are breeding in the wild now and I've read that there are an estimated 100,000 in the wild by now. The problem actually first started in the 70's but it has gotten a lot worse recently.

People need to take responsibility for their pets, and make sure they are kept secure. Also, don't buy a snake that grows to 16 feet long unless you are prepared to care for it.

Well "Meat Man" even though I mildly sort of disagree with you I will admit that you've made some valid points. Now the spread of the constrictor type snakes like the pythons, anacondas and boas are to where you could eventually cure that problem. But what I'm really afraid of with Florida would be if one or more breeding pairs of Black Mambas, Spitting Cobras, Kraits or any number of extremely dangerous snakes would escape. And if they started breeding profusely into the wild and breed at the same or similar rate as the pythons evidently have I do believe we would have a horrible disaster on our hands :eek:

Because so far the United States has not had to deal with extremely dangerous, neurotoxic snakes like the ones I just mentioned. I knew a guy at one time who was a herpetologist for a University here in our area and he told me that a lot of these snakes from Southeast Asia, Australia and the Indonesian archepelago are so dangerous to work with and could be a nightmare if they got started breeding here in the USA. Now places in the states that have bitter winters like anything mostly north of Florida would more than likely be too cold for them come winter time and they would die off that way. But in most of the state of Florida is warm enough to where they would flourish and multiply rapidly. And GOD forbid!! if a little kid were to get bit by one of those neurotoxic snakes they would most likely be dead very shortly after the bite. Because most people have no idea how super deadly some of those exotic, neurotoxic snakes are.

Now from a Constitutional and personal liberty standpoint I guess I'll go ahead and side with you on that point because I'm a firm believer in the wonderful provisions that our precious Constitution and Bill Of Rights has granted us here in the USA. And for that reason I could go with something like making the pet owner be licensed and fully responsible in the event that a dangerous snake were to get loose. I personally hate tobacco or smoking of any type but I will fight to the death for my fellow American to have personal liberties to partake if they are a responsible adult. Yeah I think you're more right than wrong because I would rather error on the side of personal liberty>> but with liberty comes responsibility. I do appreciate your honesty MEAT MAN and I"ve enjoyed many of your posts :)

Thanks JD. :)

I agree that poisonous snakes are something of a different matter. If Florida ever had the same problem with Mambas as it does with Burmese pythons, that would be a lot more serious. Perhaps a case could be made for at least restricting the possession of deadly poisonous snakes.

On a somewhat related note, I've read that piranhas have been caught on a couple occasions right out of the Lake of the Ozarks! :eek: I don't think our Missouri climate would allow them to breed and multiply, but it is an interesting (maybe a little creepy) thought. Maybe cold winters aren't so bad after all.

[JD Spydo]

GOOD GRIEF!!! :eek: Piranha fish in the Lake Of the Ozarks!!! :eek: I can't tell you all how many times I've swam in that lake and in many different places too. I've seen some pretty big Gar fish which believe it or not a lot of people are deeply afraid of :rolleyes: But that's about the most fierce fish I've ever seen at the Lake Of The Ozarks. That most definitely must be a case of someone dumping their pets in the lake And how a tropical fish like a Piranha could survive one of our very unpleasant winters is beyond me. Unless they are congregating at some warm springs or some other hiding place they could survive in. Boy I bet that has the Missouri Dept. Of Conservation on edge :D

Now as far as snakes go I've seen Osage Copperheads and Timber Rattlers in the lake swimming on a couple of occasions. I even had a Copperhead follow me as I was getting up the ladder on a swim dock and I looked back and he was sticking his fork tongue out at me :rolleyes: But no Piranha thus far.

And the Lake of the Ozarks is a haven for many types of native Missouri snakes>> so keep that in mind when you go swimming or fishing in the state's best lake :D

[Doc Dan]

Well I'll tell you Doc Dan that it was definitely a type of pit viper and it was for sure Venomous. We even took a high powered magnifying glass and it was evident that the fangs were hollowed as all venomous snakes are.

If that was a pet that someone let loose it blows me away from the aspect that the odds of it being run over on the road in that remote of an area are astronomical at the very least. Only maybe 5 cars a week go down that road I was describing. The snake was about 18 inches long in total length and I have seen just about every snake that this State of Missouri has to offer but I had never seen one that even looked anything like this one. Darn good thing nobody got bit by it because they would have had no idea which anti-venom to use :eek: And that's a big problem throughout the country for people that have exotic, dangerous pets like that. I had a neighbor years ago who actually did have a Black Mamba that he kept in his house. I'm willing to bet that you couldn't even get anti-venom in the entire Kansas City area in case of an unforeseen bite were to occur unless it was flown in by emergency. Or Unless our Swope Park Zoo might have had some on hand because they have some reptile exhibits.

And how do you make someone liable for pets that they discard into the wild? Personally I think they need to look at outlawing any snakes for pets. Just look at what it has done to the southern part of Florida for instance. I've heard that those exotic pythons and several other exotic species that once were pets are truly breeding like rats down there in southern Florida and have almost taken over parts of the Everglades.

From the size and coloration it sounds like a Mangrove Viper.

[Bloke]

Whoops. :o

[Bloke]

The snake that I’m most weary of is our Death Adder also a viper and only about 24” long but deadly.

They’re ambush hunters, lay in the leaf litter and you don’t see them till you tread on them.

[JD Spydo]

Well I'll tell you Doc Dan that it was definitely a type of pit viper and it was for sure Venomous. We even took a high powered magnifying glass and it was evident that the fangs were hollowed as all venomous snakes are.

If that was a pet that someone let loose it blows me away from the aspect that the odds of it being run over on the road in that remote of an area are astronomical at the very least. Only maybe 5 cars a week go down that road I was describing. The snake was about 18 inches long in total length and I have seen just about every snake that this State of Missouri has to offer but I had never seen one that even looked anything like this one. Darn good thing nobody got bit by it because they would have had no idea which anti-venom to use :eek: And that's a big problem throughout the country for people that have exotic, dangerous pets like that. I had a neighbor years ago who actually did have a Black Mamba that he kept in his house. I'm willing to bet that you couldn't even get anti-venom in the entire Kansas City area in case of an unforeseen bite were to occur unless it was flown in by emergency. Or Unless our Swope Park Zoo might have had some on hand because they have some reptile exhibits.

And how do you make someone liable for pets that they discard into the wild? Personally I think they need to look at outlawing any snakes for pets. Just look at what it has done to the southern part of Florida for instance. I've heard that those exotic pythons and several other exotic species that once were pets are truly breeding like rats down there in southern Florida and have almost taken over parts of the Everglades.

From the size and coloration it sounds like a Mangrove Viper.

The one I found didn't have those reddish colored eyes. This snake I found had very dark eyes. That was one of the features that gave me the creeps about that snake because he actually had almost black eyes similar to that to one of the African Mamba species. But the overall color is very similar. There was another "Mangrove Snake" that was on one of Steve Irwin's old shows. But it was black and had bright yellow bands on it. I remember him saying that it had a very nasty venom similar to that of a Fer De Lance. The venom of the Fer De Lance will literally rot your flesh off of your bones and at a very rapid rate too. You do not want to take a bite from a Fer De Lance.

Like I said in an earlier post I'm just thankful to GOD above that none of the local farm kids didn't encounter this snake that I found already dead at the time because there would have been no way at all to determine which anti-venom to use But again the overall color of the snake is very similar to what I found that day. I do know for a fact that it wasn't native to Missouri because I know my local snakes pretty well here.

[BLUETYPEII]

Some snake questions:

1 Why is it so difficult for human science to produce anti venoms for not only all snake venoms but also other toxic venoms used by other creatures? Does it boil down to the molecular complexity issue again, since these venoms are complex molecular proteins and other molecules?

2 Do pet snakes actually have affection towards their owners/keepers like cats and dogs and other pets do or do they look to the keeper/owner as a source of food and warmth?

3 I have been told by a survival-trainer that some snake species will aggressively chase after a person if you try to run away from them, while others will flee from you. Is there any truth to this that you know of and how can you determine which type of snake would do this?

Yes Certain snakes will chase you. Namely the Indian cobra and maybe other cobras to, they are very confident and unintimidated by humans.

So will water moccasins.

Good to know

[JD Spydo]

Hey Doc-Dan there is one more aspect to that snake I found up north here in Missouri>> Again he did have an overall color very similar to the one you just gave us a picture of. But I also remember that the snake I found had kind of a shiny type sheen to him rather than the flat, matte appearance like the one you showed us in the picture. Again too the eyes are a dead give-away because the snake I found had a really creepy, eerie looking set of black eyes like that of a Mamba species.

I've been doing some searches of venomous snakes using two different search engines in the past two days. I was actually shocked at how many venomous snake species we have especially in Africa, South-east Asia and South America that have official Latin names but don't have any official zoological names :confused: And that doesn't include the vast amount of obscure snakes in the non-venomous category. It shows me that even in our modern time there is still a lot we don't know even about snakes and many other animals that have yet to even be discovered.

[Bloke]

This was on tonight’s 6 o’clock news. :eek:

https://mobile.twitter.com/9NewsAUS/sta ... 32/video/1

[JD Spydo]

This was on tonight’s 6 o’clock news. :eek:

https://mobile.twitter.com/9NewsAUS/sta ... 32/video/1

WhoAAA!!!! I can't even imagine what was going through that "mother's" mind :eek: I wonder really what led that snake to go into their house to begin with? Now I am a believer in wildlife conservation and the role that snakes play in rodent control and so forth>> but if I were to see a snake ( especially a venomous snake) in my home he is going to receive the death penalty :mad: . And I know a bunch of you might disagree with me but that's where I draw the line.

It would seem that with the extremely venomous and a ultimately life threatening snakes you all have in Australia I would think that investing in some type of snake repellent or something that would highly discourage them from even getting close to your home would be wise. Even though that incident happened an ocean away it still gives me the creeps>> especially with a snake as venomous as that one is.

[Doc Dan]

Yiiiikes! That give a whole new meaning to a cuddly toy.

[Skidoosh]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/44381237

How about this one?

[Crux]

Gotta watch for them snakes.

[JD Spydo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/44381237

How about this one?

That's not the first time I've heard of a "two-headed snake". I actually seen one several years ago on the Discovery Channel. But that is just flat out weird. I've heard of other two-headed animals over the years. Good thing it isn't venomous :rolleyes: