New knife, uneven grind

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neuronic
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New knife, uneven grind

#1

Post by neuronic »

Hi,

my Manix 2 XL is my first Spyderco (had to return the first one I got due to some flaws, got one back that was better so I kept it) but I like it quite a bit so far and it might be not my last...

The thing is it has an uneven blade grind, the edge bevel coming to the tip is like 30% wider on the one side compared to the other, it's quite noticable looking from the side as well as looking down onto the blade.
It might be more obvious to the eye because it's a DLC coated blade and it doesn't affect the knife's function but still...


I'm still pretty new to this whole folding knives thing, haven't handled many, but since I'm quite "OCD" when it comes to symmetry, fit and finish I'm wondering how comon this is on mid to highend range production kives and especially on Spydercos...

Let me know your thoughts.
Thank you.
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attila
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#2

Post by attila »

You're not the only one to care about uneven grinds. All 5 PM2s and 3 Militaries I've had (all produced after 2016; idk if that matters) had a nice and even edge grind on the show side, but on the clip side from the tip to the belly, there is a section of over-ground, and therefore wider, edge bevel.

I keep the factory edge of my knives until dull from use, as oppposed to automatically resetting every bevel I get, and I remove minimal material when resharpening. Thus, the consistently uneven grind on that one section of each blade will be an irritation until after numerous sharpenings.

I guess what I'm saying is that I prefer well ground edges, and if they can properly grind one side, then there is absolutely no reason to mess up the other side so consistently. While it'll irritate me every time I look at the clip side of the blade, the good thing is that it won't actually have a noticeable affect on performance.

I mentioned this issue with the PM2 and Military to a Spyderco employee a few weeks ago, and he said he'd bring up the issue at that day's production meeting. Idk if it was mentioned, how it might have been received, or what might be done about it, but I am hoping that whoever can fix Spyderco's sharpening robot's program does so asap.
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!

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Wartstein
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#3

Post by Wartstein »

neuronic wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:44 am
Hi,

my Manix 2 XL is my first Spyderco (had to return the first one I got due to some flaws, got one back that was better so I kept it) but I like it quite a bit so far and it might be not my last...

The thing is it has an uneven blade grind, the edge bevel coming to the tip is like 30% wider on the one side compared to the other, it's quite noticable looking from the side as well as looking down onto the blade.
It might be more obvious to the eye because it's a DLC coated blade and it doesn't affect the knife's function but still...


I'm still pretty new to this whole folding knives thing, haven't handled many, but since I'm quite "OCD" when it comes to symmetry, fit and finish I'm wondering how comon this is on mid to highend range production kives and especially on Spydercos...

Let me know your thoughts.
Thank you.
I can understand that this bothers you. However, I have one Endura with uneven grind and am totally ok with it since it does not affect performance. Even makes the knife somehow more "personal"...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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neuronic
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#4

Post by neuronic »

Wartstein wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:26 am

I can understand that this bothers you. However, I have one Endura with uneven grind and am totally ok with it since it does not affect performance. Even makes the knife somehow more "personal"...


Yeah, but I guess this always is just yourself tricking your mind that a certain grade of carelessness in production is neglegtable when you actually feel it shouldn't be...

One could argue that scratched lacquer on a newly ordered car doesn't affect its performance, even might add "character", but I guess most people wouldn't accept it, and rightfully so IMHO...
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#5

Post by Wartstein »

neuronic wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:07 am
Wartstein wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:26 am

I can understand that this bothers you. However, I have one Endura with uneven grind and am totally ok with it since it does not affect performance. Even makes the knife somehow more "personal"...


Yeah, but I guess this always is just yourself tricking your mind that a certain grade of carelessness in production is neglegtable when you actually feel it shouldn't be...

One could argue that scratched lacquer on a newly ordered car doesn't affect its performance, even might add "character", but I guess most people wouldn't accept it, and rightfully so IMHO...
Good point, can't deny that. And I think I'd definitely feel that way if more than one of my Spydercos would have an uneven grind. But since that is the case with just one single Endura (and I have several of this model) it's really my "character-knife" and ok with me.
Nevertheless you're totally right that it should not happen generally.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#6

Post by JonLeBlanc »

I have a BBS S90V Millie that came with a pretty uneven grind, which doesn't really bother me, as well as a badly rounded off shoulder near the tip on both sides, which did rather bother me but oh well. I'm fairly certain it was not a used knife that someone fouled up because it was mint in every other respect, down to the very stiff action upon first opening. But as I said, doesn't bother me and doesn't affect performance.
My collection so far: 52100 Military (2); 52100 PM2 (2); 52100 Para3; Stretch2 V-Toku; KnifeWorks M4 PM2; BentoBox M390 PM2; BentoBox S90V Military; Police4 K390; S110V PM2; SS Delica AUS-6; Wayne Goddard Sprint VG-10
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#7

Post by vilePossum »

I can totally relate, though I would like to add: it is a matter of perspective...
Does it matter on my 120€ work delica... Not that much, it is not nice but there are more important things that could be wrong.
Does it matter on my special release super duper edition 200+ knife? Heck you can bet it does to me.
But... With my limited sample size I have come to accept and appreciate that spyderco does a better job at this most of the time than many other companies out there.
It is one of the reasons why I am not going to buy Benchmade our anyof the italian brands anymore unless I can inspect the knife first hand. It was also one of the reasons why I sold my sebenza (I live in Europe, so no free spa treatments).
So, if you are going to use it well, just sharpen and reshape it yourself.
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#8

Post by wrdwrght »

It occurs to me to ask: does Spyderco’s knife-sharpening service correct uneven grinds?
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#9

Post by Joey »

Mine seem to come to me 50/50. Half the time I buy a new Spyderco, I get a nice even grind throughout both sides. The other half of the time it’s as if they went a little quickly or carelessly. Overall it doesn’t bother me too bad, but it does more-so on my exclusives. My CS Para 3 is just awful.
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#10

Post by brainfriction »

This is pretty common on knives of all brands. It's pretty easy to even the bevels out over time by spending more time sharpening the side with the narrower bevel. For example, one side is 22° and one side is 20°, you could get both sides to 20°but you'd have to concentrate on the narrower 22° side first.
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#11

Post by Pelagic »

My Spyderco's have been slightly better than 50/50, as in, the majority of the time they've been virtually perfect.

I've had other brands show up with much better bevels and be much sharper on arrival, but factory sharpness means very little to me. And to a freehand sharpener and knife USER an uneven bevel isn't a big deal.
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#12

Post by Bloke »

Uneven grinds seem to be fairly common in all makes of production knives and only the degree varies. I've received Spyders with near perfect grinds and some not so perfect but it doesn't rattle me at all as long as all else is in order and I know I can eventually even things up over a couple of sharpening sessions but I s'pose that's just me. :)

If you're happy with everything else I'd say use and enjoy your knife and worry about the grind when you come to sharpen. ;)
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#13

Post by Joey »

I understand the performance isn’t hindered to any noticeable degree, and I enjoy freehand sharpenening as much as the next guy, but I can’t help but share my experience. I will probably always prefer Spyderco to any brand, but I wonder how their QC is (IMO) spot on with fit and finish until you get a look at the bevel. My knives ALWAYS come razor sharp, even when bevel inconsistencies are present, so that is a big plus.
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#14

Post by Joey »

Here’s a great example:
2 knives from the same factory, made around the same timeframe (+-)
The stainless Manix 2 is flawless on both sides, and is what you would expect from a $100+ blade.
The Para 3 was $150, and has a 5-10 (I don’t have a way to measure) degree variation between bevels.
Anyway, that imperfection aside, I want to stress again how much I love the brand. I especially enjoy these that are made in Colorado.
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#15

Post by awa54 »

The edge grind is the least permanent part of the entire knife... as Alex pointed out a few sharpenings down the road you'll never know there was a "flaw" when it was new. I personally reset the bevel and even the grind up on about 75% of the new knives I get, however my last few Millies, PM2s and Para 3s have been so well ground that I haven't felt the need.

Get a guided sharpening system and then you'll be able to correct any geometry issues and as a bonus, you'll never again have to suffer the worry of how good the factory edge will be on your newest purchase, since you can make your own and be certain it'll be better than "factory" in every way!
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still more knives than sharpening stones...
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#16

Post by The Mastiff »

Return it if it bothers you. Use it if it doesn't. No matter what we think in this situation it's what you think that matters. I redo the edge to suit my needs so unless it was really bad I wouldn't think to much of it. I'm curious how often knives you purchase aren't suitable and if there are brands that do better for you? Back in the day before CNC machines all edges were essentially finished by hand and it was accepted that hand sharpened knives done by good cutlers should perform well and the lack of eye perfection wasn't necessarily a fault. I suppose standards have changed.

Spyderco has stated they can make knives to the same standards as Sebenzas but they would cost as much as Sebenzas if built to the same tolerances. Something to consider.

Joe
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#17

Post by zhyla »

I think Spyderco is grinding the edges by hand still. Most of mine have been fine (except for ALL of my SE knives :)) but my Positron was probably 60/40.

If Spyderco can't correct it there's lots of people out there who specialize in grinding/sharpening you can touch up the bevel for you. If you have a sharpening system that allows for consistent angle control you can probably straighten this out on your own fairly quickly.
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#18

Post by Joey »

I guess it’s just one of those things I have to get over. Sorry to the OP for highjacking the thread! IMO you are onto something, though others don’t seem to think so.
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#19

Post by Larry_Mott »

IMO knives costing over $40 should have symmetrical edge. I (obviously) don't consider it a deal breaker, but it does annoy me. I am totally with the guy earlier in the thread who ask if you would be as tolerant of a new car with scratched paint or doors and hood ill fitted..
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Re: New knife, uneven grind

#20

Post by neuronic »

Joey wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:19 am
I guess it’s just one of those things I have to get over. Sorry to the OP for highjacking the thread! IMO you are onto something, though others don’t seem to think so.

"Saul Goodmann", Joey ;)


Hmm. Thanks for all the input so far. To be perfectly honest I didn't expect this to be a 50:50 hit-and-miss kinda thing but from what you guys tell me, it sure reads like it is. That's... surprising.

Even more so since there are all these budget knife companies that continuesly get this thing right... look at Real Steel, look at those new Civivi ones.

To argue "Sure, you could get Chris Reeve kinda tolerances but only at a Chris Reeve kinda pricing" is just not valid here, I'm sorry. If you get the grind right 5 times out of 10 then the only reason you're not getting it right the other 5 times is: care, the lack of respectively.

If this doesn't bother you, that's okay. But from what I can tell a great part of all the love Spydero is getting in the knife world is deriving from the feeling that they care for their products and they care for their customers more than a chinese budget knife production does.
But uneven grind lines, 5 times out of 10? Come on, guys...
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