Which Spyder folder is the toughest; will take the most abuse?

[vivi]

Sad that the knife community defaults to prying every time someone mentions toughness. That's just the way it is though, and I'm still here...

If you're not prying with your folder then what benefit does 4mm+ blade stock and saber grinds have over FFG 3mm or thinner?

[Daveho]

Cheaper to get some of those cut proof gloves and do dumb stuff with cheap folders.

[awa54]

I've seen a couple of references to the Gayle Bradley 1... Is it considered superior compared to the Gayle Bradley 2? I never took the time to properly investigate the differences between them, outside of the obvious finger choil area.

The GB1 is an odd one; the liners and lock are way overbuilt, while the thickness behind the edge is quite thin... in anything less tough than M4 it would probably suffer from edge damage when used enthusiastically. The handle certainly encouraged one to think of it as a beater!

[Pelagic]

Sad that the knife community defaults to prying every time someone mentions toughness. That's just the way it is though, and I'm still here...

If you're not prying with your folder then what benefit does 4mm+ blade stock and saber grinds have over FFG 3mm or thinner?

Blade stock isn't the only issue. Anything that isn't extremely thin and extremely lightweight is a sharpened prybar nowadays. You know what I meant.

[JD Spydo]

I think you can throw the Lil Temperance models off a cliff and they'd be fine. It's a very stout package.

A big yes and AMEN!!! to that original Lil TEMPERANCE model :cool: that model along with the Chinook III are both that you could drop out of an airplane and pick it up later with no worries :cool:

Also there is another vintage Spyder that I have said for years could take about any punishment you could give it>> I'm speaking of the ATS-55 era, STainless handled RESCUE model :cool: It has been one of my main companion blades for at least 5 years now and it is just as solid and rigid as the first day I ever used it. Oh how I wish that Sal would deeply consider doing a Sprint Run of the Stainless RESCUE in one of the supersteel blades.

Also that TUFF model the one Brother mentioned is a rock solid unit as well. But bottom line I've always had an affinity for the GOLDEN, CO USA MADE units :cool:

[JD Spydo]

The Native 5 G10 with the liners is the toughest thing they make currently.

It's built like a tank.

I doubt you could hurt it except if you really tried to under extreme circumstances.

Glad you mentioned the NATIVE 5 "Ankerson" :) But I'll go one further than that>> Even my late 90s, GOLDEN CO USA made 440V, Spyderedged NATIVE has done some pretty brutal jobs and it's still in my "user rotation". I've given testimony about 4 times in the past few years how I even resigned myself that one job in particular was going to destroy my 440V, SE NATIVE>> but much to my pleasant surprise it's still in full operation mode :cool: The NATIVE models are Spyderco's pitbull folders IMO.

You absolutely can't go wrong with any of the NATIVE models. But I do like the GOLDEN made units the best :cool:

[vivi]

Sad that the knife community defaults to prying every time someone mentions toughness. That's just the way it is though, and I'm still here...

If you're not prying with your folder then what benefit does 4mm+ blade stock and saber grinds have over FFG 3mm or thinner?

Blade stock isn't the only issue. Anything that isn't extremely thin and extremely lightweight is a sharpened prybar nowadays. You know what I meant.

Not really. That's why I asked.

I've used a lot of 3mm thick FFG blades as pry bars while harvesting fatwood. Granted they were fixed blades, but they were up to the task.

[Pelagic]

Sad that the knife community defaults to prying every time someone mentions toughness. That's just the way it is though, and I'm still here...

If you're not prying with your folder then what benefit does 4mm+ blade stock and saber grinds have over FFG 3mm or thinner?

Blade stock isn't the only issue. Anything that isn't extremely thin and extremely lightweight is a sharpened prybar nowadays. You know what I meant.

Not really. That's why I asked.

I've used a lot of 3mm thick FFG blades as pry bars while harvesting fatwood. Granted they were fixed blades, but they were up to the task.

Well this very thread is evidence of my point. The title concerns toughness, not blade stock thickness, and prying becomes a central concern. It happens quite a bit actually. I just think it gets us virtually nowhere, as those who value toughness like myself do not condone prying with folders. It's actually a continuous strawman within the online knife community (not just here, by any means).

Person A: I like tough folders
Person B: Eww, you use folders as prybars??

Lol, hopefully that provides ample clarification.

[VashHash]

Szabo folder.

[Catamount123]

Prying is the subject that comes up most when talking about toughness and folders. There are a number of other aspects to it, though, as many posters have aptly pointed out. Thanks everyone for the excellent and thought provoking conversation :)

[curlyhairedboy]

Re: Tuff vs Shaman

I'd say the Tuff wins on tip strength, but due to lock type, I'd trust the Shaman more. If the Tuff came in a compression lock, it would be undisputed.

[ferider]

Szabo folder.

Yep. But that's in the 4.5" blade length category :) Not too many Spydies in that category, just Police, K2 and Szabo, and the Szabo clearly wins.

Why I categorize by blade length ? Because pivot and tang torque are proportional to it, when force is applied to the knife tip.

[VashHash]

Szabo folder.

Yep. But that's in the 4.5" blade length category :) Not too many Spydies in that category, just Police, K2 and Szabo, and the Szabo clearly wins.

Why I categorize by blade length ? Because pivot and tang torque are proportional to it, when force is applied to the knife tip.

I didn't know we were categorizing by blade length. I just think it's a beefy over built folder that would stand up to a lot.

[Ankerson]

The Native 5 G10 with the liners is the toughest thing they make currently.

It's built like a tank.

I doubt you could hurt it except if you really tried to under extreme circumstances.

Glad you mentioned the NATIVE 5 "Ankerson" :) But I'll go one further than that>> Even my late 90s, GOLDEN CO USA made 440V, Spyderedged NATIVE has done some pretty brutal jobs and it's still in my "user rotation". I've given testimony about 4 times in the past few years how I even resigned myself that one job in particular was going to destroy my 440V, SE NATIVE>> but much to my pleasant surprise it's still in full operation mode :cool: The NATIVE models are Spyderco's pitbull folders IMO.

You absolutely can't go wrong with any of the NATIVE models. But I do like the GOLDEN made units the best :cool:

They are pretty much bulletproof from what I have seen in testing.

[vivi]

If you're not prying with your folder then what benefit does 4mm+ blade stock and saber grinds have over FFG 3mm or thinner?

Blade stock isn't the only issue. Anything that isn't extremely thin and extremely lightweight is a sharpened prybar nowadays. You know what I meant.

Not really. That's why I asked.

I've used a lot of 3mm thick FFG blades as pry bars while harvesting fatwood. Granted they were fixed blades, but they were up to the task.

Well this very thread is evidence of my point. The title concerns toughness, not blade stock thickness, and prying becomes a central concern. It happens quite a bit actually. I just think it gets us virtually nowhere, as those who value toughness like myself do not condone prying with folders. It's actually a continuous strawman within the online knife community (not just here, by any means).

Person A: I like tough folders
Person B: Eww, you use folders as prybars??

Lol, hopefully that provides ample clarification.

.....

I was responding to a comment about prying. You're chose to interject yourself in a conversation between me and Bloke and complain about prying. Strange choice.

Again I invite you to provide for me examples of how a 4mm+ thick blade is superior to a 3mm thick blade for non-prying tasks. If you want to conversation to be about something other than prying, then accept my invitation silly :p

[Pelagic]

Blade stock isn't the only issue. Anything that isn't extremely thin and extremely lightweight is a sharpened prybar nowadays. You know what I meant.

Not really. That's why I asked.

I've used a lot of 3mm thick FFG blades as pry bars while harvesting fatwood. Granted they were fixed blades, but they were up to the task.

Well this very thread is evidence of my point. The title concerns toughness, not blade stock thickness, and prying becomes a central concern. It happens quite a bit actually. I just think it gets us virtually nowhere, as those who value toughness like myself do not condone prying with folders. It's actually a continuous strawman within the online knife community (not just here, by any means).

Person A: I like tough folders
Person B: Eww, you use folders as prybars??

Lol, hopefully that provides ample clarification.

.....

I was responding to a comment about prying. You're chose to interject yourself in a conversation between me and Bloke and complain about prying. Strange choice.

Again I invite you to provide for me examples of how a 4mm+ thick blade is superior to a 3mm thick blade for non-prying tasks. If you want to conversation to be about something other than prying, then accept my invitation silly :p

I didn't know the conversation was meaningful or private to you. I'll give you some space.

As to the question it's seemingly acceptable for me to comment on: I'll repeat, again, I am not referring to blade stock thickness or prying for that matter. 3mm spine thickness is fine for my needs. I appreciate toughness, both as a blade steel quality and in a knife that has a glaring weakness in comparison to a fixed blade: it folds in half via a pivot. I'll leave it at that, because you're having trouble understanding.

[Surfingringo]

This should not be a touchy subject. I think the reason you guys are having a hard time understanding is you are talking past each other. I'm going to take a stab at this one but if I just make it worse then apologies in advance. :p

I think there might be some confusion because we all have different definitions of what a "tough" folder is. For me, it was a frn knife with a "tough" blade steel and a cheap price. To another guy it might mean something like the Tuff with a thick blade stock, and grind. To someone else it might mean a knife with extra heavy liners and a lock that can withstand X 100's of pounds of force without failing.

I think a lot of people define a "tough" folder as a knife with a thick blade stock, thick grind, obtuse tip and heavy duty lock. Clearly there is a market for knives like that because companies keep making them and they keep selling. That said, I think that Vivi's question is a fair one and if there is an answer to it then I'd like to hear it. That's not an attempt at a "gotcha" question directed at any specific member, I'd be interested in hearing lots of discussion from everyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone of the merits of my preferences, I'm just curious to learn something about the knife market and what users are looking for in a folding knife. I personally don't want a super thick folder that sacrifices cutting performance for weight and a more robust tip but if there is a market for that then I'm genuinely interested in what the motivation is.

Pelagic, correct me if I'm wrong, but I kind of feel like your idea of a "tough" folder is one with a very tough (using the word technically here) blade steel but not necessarily an overly thick blade stock or grind. Encase that in a robust handle with a strong pivot and lock...am I close? If so then I'm right on board with all of that. For me, if i were to leave corrosion resistance out of the criteria, I would rate the Gayle Bradley 1 as one of Spyderco's best examples of a tough folder that was still made to be a great cutter.

[Bloke]

This should not be a touchy subject ...

Agreed! :)

You make valid points Gringo and I think the most valid is that we all have a different concept of toughness.

Blade steel aside there’s no getting around the fact that all things being equal the pivot and lock will always be the weak link in any folder and ultimately in my mind at least will determine just how tough the knife is.

I can’t help but wonder what advantage a lock that fails at 3000lb would have over a lock that fails at 300lb of vertical force. Who can exert that type of force on a knife? Further more will the 3000lb lock have any significant advantage over a 300lb lock once we apply lateral force?

Please don’t understand me wrong, redundancy is a great thing but at the end of the day aren’t we just trying to cut stuff? :rolleyes:

[Pelagic]

Lance, I consider myself friends with Vivi, so on that front, it's all good.

Thank you for responding. You're the only person here (which I'm sure of) spends more time in the ocean than myself, so I always enjoy seeing your input.

My perfect "tough" folder is this:
Tall blade (sharpening lifetime)
Stout tip (I've broken off too many millie/pm2's)
Full liners
Large stop pin within those liners
Large diameter pivot barrel
Large pivot screws
Larger phosphor bronze washers than spyderco offers
Tall blade
Stout tip
Tri-ad lock (spyderco backlock is fine too).

I don't have to have all that to be satisfied. I could just buy a cold steel sr1 if I wanted a thick blade. I've owned a 4max before and that's thinner than the sr1 and I ended up selling it.

The thing is, Lance, is that no one here could ever imagine your lifestyle. Nor could they mine. Imagine your kayak and your cutting boards being made of steel (instead of wood or plastic), and you constantly catching barracudas and amber Jack's.

If you don't understand that scenario or those examples I can easily provide more since I've spent thousands of hours working on boats offshore. Where I work, everything is steel. Make one mistake and your knife is done.

[Pelagic]

Bloke, at the end of the day we all view knives EXTREMELY differently.

For all I know there's a boxcutter forum somewhere where they call all pocketknife fans a bunch of weirdos.

It all depends on what kind of life you live.

Maybe spyderco simply isn't the brand for me. I refuse to believe it, but several of the people here seem to be pushing me in a different direction.