Hard truths and observations

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Gil Hibben made them. Really great knife-maker. Good friend.

sal

OMG Sal I just looked at his site I had no idea he was the Klingon Armorer for Star Trek!! No wonder I always loved those designs they were his! Too darn funny how tastes run true without even knowing who made the beautifully wicked sharp things!

I do know a thing or two about Klingons. :D Qapla!!

KLINGON.jpg

[anagarika]

Gil Hibben made them. Really great knife-maker. Good friend.

sal

Sal,

Your sources is likely better than mine, but I read in a magazine long time back (25-30 yrs), it was made by Jimmy Lile (sp?).

EDIT:

jimmy lile made the knives for the first blood movies (i and ii). gil hibben made the knife for rambo iii and rambo (iv).

You’re probably right.

For me it’s the 80’s balisongs (American Ninja, Codename Wildfeese, Street of Fire) :o
Probably made by Jody Samson or some are Seki import (Frost, Fury, etc. )

[PStone]

Jimmy Lile did the original Rambo knife. Gil Hibben did the knives for Rambos 3 and 4. He also made a prototype that wasn’t used, but later became a production model that is still available to this day. It’s called the Big John.

https://rambo.fandom.com/wiki/Rambo_Survival_Knives

Edit:ladybug beat me to it!

[sal]

jimmy lile made the knives for the first blood movies (i and ii). gil hibben made the knife for rambo iii and rambo (iv).

I stand corrected.

sal

[TomAiello]

I realize I'm off topic now, but I just wanted to say that I haven't seen a china made knife that can compete on price/value ratio with the $130 DLT Manix in 20cv. :)

[anycal]

That can't be good for the heat treatment,

[cbrstar]

https://youtu.be/-gj9CMvwfv4

Speaking of Rambo does anyone else remember knives like "the survivor" comming out after the movie, and every kid thinking they were Rambo knives?

But I can't think of a better knife that demonstrates you get what you pay for lol. All my friends bought them and because of the Rambo movie broke them within 5 mins. There wasn't a single kid I knew who could resist trying to throw it and the handle would instantly snap off or shatter into a million pieces.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

That can't be good for the heat treatment,

Someone needs to tell him he will get a much better shave using that knife a little bit differently. No wonder his beard is growing like that.

[PStone]

Not Rambo. But this is the scene that was burned into my childhood mind. Now that’s a knife!

[legOFwhat?]

Not Rambo. But this is the scene that was burned into my childhood mind. Now that’s a knife!

Should have got...


..... "to da choppah"! :D

[anteck7]

People and companies are free to sell the products for what they want.

Right now, the high quality Chinese knives don't have widespread exposure or reputation in US markets and B&M. A lot of nonknife people have zero way to find out if they like a kizer t1, WE 620 or a Spyderco shaman more. The shaman, pm2, or Benchmade 940 are the best knives they will be able to hold in hand prior to purchase.

If WE or Kizer break into B&M, I would expect that Spyderco to start bringing prices down.

[jcoolG19]

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Kershaw-L ... ack--75307

USA made knife with M390 blade steel for under $80.

Sal states the dollar to yuan rate is 6 to 1.

How many M390 knives coming out of China sell for $13?

How about we quadruple that price to account for Ti VS Aluminum?

Ok, so how many Ti/M390 knives sell for $52, regardless of where they are made?

Do they have good warranties?

Do they actually use M390? Did you do any testing do determine it's not actually 9Cr "rebranded" as the steel of the day? How many people buying these Ti flippers use them enough to know?

Folks are being ripped off, plain as day. You guys are paying 2-4x what a product could be sold for, buying products that might not be what they claim to be, then complaining that knives made in the USA using legit steels don't have comparable prices?

I won't jump into the conversation about value. That is determined by the one spending the money. As for the steels, most are honest. It has surprised me how many are. How do I know? I test them. Many of them.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Now thats a Knife best Dundee imitation just in case no one heard it :D

[sal]

Hi Antech7, JcoolG19,

Welcome to our forum.

Hey Antech,

I don't think we could lower our prices much and still stay in business. Usually we just stick with the knives that are selling and disco the ones that aren't. When we close them out, it is usually below our cost to make them.

Jcool,

How do you test them?

sal

[jcoolG19]

Hi Antech7, JcoolG19,


Jcool,

How do you test them?

sal

PMI and Rockwell. I actually use Spyderco knives as a control for PMI matches. We trust you guys! LOL
Most of the dishonest ones are actually re-branders. They don't manufacture anything. D2 is the most common faked steel. Rockwell results range from good to aweful. As far as the quality of the heat treat, only use will tell. That's one reason I like cut tests. Btw, I tested a Rex45 Military the other day... impressive! Only thing I have tested that was harder is s tungsten carbide knife.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

That is a really good question just how would you test a knife to make sure the steel is what is advertised? I mean with Spyderco I own enough different models and different steels even in the same model family that it is readily apparent they are not the same steel.

The only way I could tell is by taking the product of a known trustworthy company IE: Spyderco and take lets say a Military in S90V and another one in M4 and sharpen it. You can tell immediately they are not the same steel, or leave them both wet and watch as they oxidize differently.

I would say that unless you are testing within the same company product line where the heat treatment and other factors are going to be consistent that it would be nearly impossible to tell what you are getting unless there is some chemistry test that can be performed and if that is the case would love to learn about the process. Seems to me it would involve reduction of some kind with acids and that would destroy the blades.

[gundamaniac]

That is a really good question just how would you test a knife to make sure the steel is what is advertised? I mean with Spyderco I own enough different models and different steels even in the same model family that it is readily apparent they are not the same steel.

The only way I could tell is by taking the product of a known trustworthy company IE: Spyderco and take lets say a Military in S90V and another one in M4 and sharpen it. You can tell immediately they are not the same steel, or leave them both wet and watch as they oxidize differently.

I would say that unless you are testing within the same company product line where the heat treatment and other factors are going to be consistent that it would be nearly impossible to tell what you are getting unless there is some chemistry test that can be performed and if that is the case would love to learn about the process. Seems to me it would involve reduction of some kind with acids and that would destroy the blades.

How about EDX spectroanalysis for elemental breakdown?

Don't mind me, I'm being silly here :D

[sal]

The only way that we've found is to have a metallurgical testing lab do a chemical analysis. Expensive, but accurate.

sal

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Silly is good.

I know for a fact what Spyderco calls M390 is M390 because I love Spyderco products and respect Sal. :)

But beyond that I own several Knives in M390 some of them as backups some I own 3 copies of and I can tell by the way they look, the way they cut and the way they sharpen they are not M4 or some other steel.

Without spending allot of money though you can be sure of one thing. Spyderco can be trusted each and every time. If it says M390 that is what it is. If it says Elmax you are getting Elmax, If it says VG-10 you are getting VG-10. Each and every time.

If people want to be cheap well there is no cure for a cheap skate or a gambler roll the dice buy something from China even if it is the steel as advertised how about the heat treatment?

Even if the heat treatment and alloy are good, what they heck good is a crummy design? Yeah some look Wicked Awesome but Spyderco's are wicked awesome and are functional beyond belief.

Ugly Ducklings? sure now and then like my all time favorite Stretch2 but put it in the hand and do some cutting Wow! Yeah Sal knows what he is doing and Eric has lived his whole life with an awesome Dad so Spyderco will continue to be the company to go to for good quality knives over a wide range of prices to fit every budget.

Nuff Said!

[jcoolG19]

The only way that we've found is to have a metallurgical testing lab do a chemical analysis. Expensive, but accurate.

sal

That isn't entirely true. A PMI, with a quality analyzer, can give you a pretty accurate breakdown of the element content. If those particular alloys are in the library, the database, it will give you a match. If it is not, the data can be compared to known formulas. Every steel producer provides those. In addition, using a known and trusted source can provide further evidence. Spyderco's S35VN looks pretty much like everyone's S35VN. The same steel doesn't mean it is the same quality. I recently Rockwelled a fairly known, cheap knife that was supposedly S35VN. It was...at 52.5 HRC!
The biggest reason I started doing tests for reviewers, was to find those dishonest companies and out them. Not just the steel but Rockwell, too. That is all I can do. Other's are doing the cut tests, trying to put some clarity on heat treat quality. I work pretty hard for my money, and I know most do. I'm trying to make sure people are getting what they pay for. As for what they cost, I don't care. The consumers have to decide that for themselves.