Abel Native5

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Bullwinkle
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Abel Native5

#1

Post by Bullwinkle »

I'm a collector of Spyderco for years and have dozens. I have several Natives and already have purchased the Native Salt for $120.

But, there is NO WAY I'm going to pay $495 for a Native with painted fish scale handles sponsored by Abel !!!!

The price is outrageous and nothing short of gouging.
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Re: Abel Native5

#2

Post by BLUETYPEII »

I completely agree even if I was a loaded I would not buy this knife.
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PStone
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Re: Abel Native5

#3

Post by PStone »

I am currently gathering funds to claim one. I don’t think they are gouging anyone. Just selling for full msrp. There is a lot of work that goes into these I’m sure, so they(Abel)want to maximize their profits. Plus aren’t the handles a bit different? Added chamfering=added machining=added cost. And a completely new backspacer=new/different machining=cost. I want one so freakin bad
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Re: Abel Native5

#4

Post by Mushroom »

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:48 am
I'm a collector of Spyderco for years and have dozens. I have several Natives and already have purchased the Native Salt for $120.

But, there is NO WAY I'm going to pay $495 for a Native with painted fish scale handles sponsored by Abel !!!!

The price is outrageous and nothing short of gouging.
Everyone finds value in different things. There were apparently enough people that value the craftsmanship and work that goes into these, to pay that price. The first production run sold out and a second batch is being done now.

There is no paint on these knives either. They are entirely hand anodized. This is a long process and requires many more hours of labor than a typical Native 5. The price may come as a shock at first when comparing it to other Native 5's, but considering the hand labor and production time that goes into these, it's not that crazy.

There is another thread (Abel Native Exclusive) in which a representative from Abel Reels clarified some information about these knives.

:spyder:
AbelReels wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:52 pm
Hello all,

I work at Abel Reels, and wanted to clear up some confusion I've seen on the forums.

I'm excited to see the enthusiasm around the Abel Native Exclusive edition blade. However, it appears as if there's some misconception around what this product (and our anodize process) actually is.

Abel is a premium fly reel manufacturer, and over the past 20 years has perfected a very unique process of manual polishing and artistic anodize, performed 100% by human hand. We hand polish aluminum parts on buffing wheels to a mirror finish before our anodize process. There is no actual "paint" involved in our process, however we do use paint brushes (and sponges, q-tips, proprietary techniques, etc) to hand-manipulate the anodize chemical dyes and create realistic fish patterns and other graphics (think traditional aluminum anodize meets dying easter eggs by hand).

The process can take up to 4 to 12 labor hours to complete per product, depending on the graphic. Recreating artwork in metal often takes longer than the original artwork takes to create. The cost is significant, all done 100% in the USA. The results are extremely vivid graphics put into the metal surface by hand.....it is Type II anodize, not paint. Our anodize durable, and doesn't rub off. As long as you don't scratch the metal, the anodize plating is intact, and will last a lifetime.

Due to the labor involved, the price reflects our costs, and there's only a modest markup on the product. While I appreciate that this product doesn't suit all people, there are many people that do value our process and what our brand stands for. Our first production run is already pre-sold and we're into our second. We feel that Spyderco, and their commitment to quality and performance, are and excellent fit for this beautiful collaboration.

The knives start shipping later in February.

Thanks again for all of your interest! We are passionate about what we do and love it when others enjoy our work.
-Nick :bug-red
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Re: Abel Native5

#5

Post by SG89 »

^What Mushroom said^
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Re: Abel Native5

#6

Post by The Deacon »

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:48 am
I'm a collector of Spyderco for years and have dozens. I have several Natives and already have purchased the Native Salt for $120.

But, there is NO WAY I'm going to pay $495 for a Native...

No problem. You have an absolute right to decide what you'll spend your money on, and what you won't.

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:48 am
...with painted fish scale handles sponsored by Abel !!!!

The price is outrageous and nothing short of gouging.

If the fish scales were merely a coat of paint applied to the titanium scales, I'd tend to agree with you, But, from what I understand, there's no "paint" involved, it's a multi color anodizing process done by hand. That's time consuming work that takes a talented artist who also knows a lot about anodizing. Time is money so I doubt the time of someone with those skills comes cheap. And, no matter how good they are, I suspect more than a few scales have to be scrapped, which also has to be factored into the cost.
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Re: Abel Native5

#7

Post by MichaelScott »

Gouging is a term used to indicate taking advantage of a shortage by charging more for the item that it is usually worth.
Abel Natives obviously do not fit that definition.

While you do not think the cost is worth one of the knives, I would be all over the brown trout one if I had the funds. I’m sure others feel the same.
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Re: Abel Native5

#8

Post by BigGrove »

The Deacon wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:41 pm
If the fish scales were merely a coat of paint applied to the titanium scales, I'd tend to agree with you, But, from what I understand, there's no "paint" involved, it's a multi color anodizing process done by hand. That's time consuming work that takes a talented artist who also knows a lot about anodizing. Time is money so I doubt the time of someone with those skills comes cheap. And, no matter how good they are, I suspect more than a few scales have to be scrapped, which also has to be factored into the cost.
One clarification....

The handles are 6061-T6 Ultra aluminum alloy not titanium.
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Re: Abel Native5

#9

Post by Wartstein »

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:48 am
I'm a collector of Spyderco for years and have dozens. I have several Natives and already have purchased the Native Salt for $120.

But, there is NO WAY I'm going to pay $495 for a Native with painted fish scale handles sponsored by Abel !!!!

The price is outrageous and nothing short of gouging.
This is the second thread you started in a short period of time basically stating that you do not like the price for the Abel Native 5. That's ok. But "outrageous and gouging"?!

For me personally it's like:
- Do I like Spyderco as a company even more cause they make knives in every price category, do lots of collaborations and sometimes offer real pieces of art like the Abel Native? Sure, I do very much so
- Will I buy one? Most likely not
- Do I appreciate that Spyderco made such a knife possible in the first place and am I glad for everyone who can and wants to purchase and enjoy one? I am, 100 %
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Re: Abel Native5

#10

Post by BigGrove »

Not sure what Bullwinkle's intention is of starting another thread about the Abel Native...

If I had been chastised by TazKristi for comments in the other thread about this knife, I would reflect on my behavior.
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Re: Abel Native5

#11

Post by Sjucaveman »

BigGrove wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:30 pm
Not sure what Bullwinkle's intention is of starting another thread about the Abel Native...

If I had been chastised by TazKristi for comments in the other thread about this knife, I would reflect on my behavior.
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Re: Abel Native5

#12

Post by spyderg »

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:48 am
I'm a collector of Spyderco for years and have dozens. I have several Natives and already have purchased the Native Salt for $120.

But, there is NO WAY I'm going to pay $495 for a Native with painted fish scale handles sponsored by Abel !!!!

The price is outrageous and nothing short of gouging.
I’m not sure why it’s bothering you so much? I think it’s too expensive also but I just won’t be buying one. I assume the price is warranted by the extra time and work going into them.
For me it’s like my buddies old Honda Civic. He had a fair bit of money in it. It had a butt load extra horsepower, racing suspension and seats, etc. At the end of the day it was still a Civic. I wouldn’t pay what he did for the car but he got a lot of enjoyment out of it and that’s what matters right? Also when he sold it a few years later he actually managed a small profit.
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Re: Abel Native5

#13

Post by Wartstein »

This thread somehow reminds me of the one that covered the Shaman and it´s pricepoint recently (some consider it as being to high);

Honestly and without wanting to offend anybody, I don´t get the problem here: I mean, it´s not like Spyderco was the last existing bakery in the world, producing just one kind of bread and anyone who does not want to starve had to buy it for whatever price is charged.

Thanks to Spyderco there actually IS a knife like the Abel Native out there in the first place. Without Spyderco no one would have the opportunity to own one, cause it would not exist. When I consider the two years of preliminary research mentionend, the artwork, craftsmanship and probably not to high production numbers I think the price is reasonable. But that does not even matter: The knife is out there thanks to Spyderco and Abel, which is a good thing, anyone who wants and can buy one should do so and enjoy it, for everyone else there are literally tons of other Spyderco models in almost any price category.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Abel Native5

#14

Post by Tims »

I tend to look at knives like this as exclusive art. When you think about the many millions of dollars people are willing to spend on art, $500 for a knife like this is nothing.
When you consider also that this knife would probably be more at home framed on a wall than rolling around a tackle box, the art analogy seems appropriate.
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Re: Abel Native5

#15

Post by CXXX »

Tims wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:27 pm
I tend to look at knives like this as exclusive art. When you think about the many millions of dollars people are willing to spend on art, $500 for a knife like this is nothing.
When you consider also that this knife would probably be more at home framed on a wall than rolling around a tackle box, the art analogy seems appropriate.
That's how I look at it as a piece of art, embellished by another company, they are beautiful and compliment Abel's other products. These kind of remind me of the Santa Fe Stone Works embellished knives. I don't really consider these true "Spyderco's" since the have been customized by a third party. Like some dealers are swapping out scales etc.
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