Wear Resistance

[Bodog]

If you want a steel like 10V, it should be apparent that the tasks you want you knife to perform are reliant on raw wear resistance. Yet I see people wanting 10V and not 15V. I see people wanting Maxamet but not 15V. I see people wanting advanced steels that no one else is using, yet people don't clamor for the idea of 15V. I'm genuinely curious as to why. Is it because Jim Ankerson nor Cliff Stamp have said anything about the steel so they don't care? Do people not know enough to want something based on their own knowledge without 5000 other people wanting the same thing?

I'm genuinely curious. Why aren't people shouting for a steel like 15V from the rooftops? It's held the Russian cutting competitions top spot for years, yet no one in the west really says anything about it. Why? It really makes my peanuts ponder. Are people really that sheepish? Just follow the leader and nothing else matters? Please help me understand.

[The Meat man]

I can't answer for others, but to me it's all about the trade-off: at what point do you stop sacrificing one quality for another?

In this case, the question is "How far do you want to sacrifice toughness and ease of sharpening for wear resistance?" For some people, 10V may be the most they're willing to go in sacrificing ease of sharpening/toughness for wear resistance.

Some may draw the line at S90V or S110V. Some people might not care at all about toughness and beg for REX 121. Others might not ever go with anything higher in wear resistance than VG-10.

The same trade off applies to all aspects of a knife steel.

[ferider]

I am absolutely amazed how many boxes Jim can cut in one afternoon, but that's not my application, Bodog. I don't mind touch-up sharpening once a week, and my edges don't need to be razor polished. My favorite platforms are Manix, Military and PM2, in that order.

I broke a Maxamet Manix blade easily, accidentally, which is why I personally believe that we will never see a Maxamet Military, or Manix with liners. I don't want to go through that again.

To tell you the truth, I have to use some of my new knives first a bit more before picking another new steel. My Rex 45 Military being the front-runner.

I can only digest so many new steels in a given time :)

I don't seem to be alone in that .... CMP-Cruwear is a cult steel by now, yet, the Mule Team 27 has been in Spyderco's stock for the longest time.

[Deadboxhero]

There isn't enough real world empirical evidence for people to see and watch to quantify differences between the advantages and disadvantages of 15v compared to other steels.

There is a stigma that the steel is so extreme that it's impossible to use and make knives out of.

My experience with 15v was a lot more friendly then rex121.

If you want a steel like 10V, it should be apparent that the tasks you want you knife to perform are reliant on raw wear resistance. Yet I see people wanting 10V and not 15V. I see people wanting Maxamet but not 15V. I see people wanting advanced steels that no one else is using, yet people don't clamor for the idea of 15V. I'm genuinely curious as to why. Is it because Jim Ankerson nor Cliff Stamp have said anything about the steel so they don't care? Do people not know enough to want something based on their own knowledge without 5000 other people wanting the same thing?

I'm genuinely curious. Why aren't people shouting for a steel like 15V from the rooftops? It's held the Russian cutting competitions top spot for years, yet no one in the west really says anything about it. Why? It really makes my peanuts ponder. Are people really that sheepish? Just follow the leader and nothing else matters? Please help me understand.

[ZrowsN1s]

Could 15V be sharpened on the sharpmakers brown and white stones (or be content with the lower grit finish from the sharpmaker diamond and cbn stones)? Or would people need to invest in some new sharpening equipment to really get the most out of that steel?

[knivesandbooks]

Becuase I don't care about wear resistance.
1095, VG10, S30v, LC200n-- these are all fine with me.
Sure, I really like my knives in k390, m4, s110v, or whatever. But the wear resistance is not what I'm clamoring for.

I'll buy it and try it if they make it. But eh

[p_atrick]

In this case, the question is "How far do you want to sacrifice toughness and ease of sharpening for wear resistance?"

In episode 4 of the Think Twice Cut Once podcast (Tim Reeve and Matt Fabbi of CRK) talked about the use of S35VN of in CRK knives. Tim had a Sebenza in 20CV in his pocket (they made 8 or 10 of those blades) and he doesn't like 20CV as much as S35VN. It was an interesting conversation but it really came down to that very same question. Tim likes S35VN because of the tradeoffs you make with other steels. This conversation is toward the end of the podcast, and there is probably not enough knife talk for most people who frequent this forum, but I find it more interesting to hear people in the knife industry talk about knives.

[jpm2]

I need a proper balance of wear resistance and toughness so I'm not repairing edge damage and dulling all the time.
I'd give 15V a try.

[Bodog]

I haven't tried to grind a whole blade out of these but I've sharpened them. Rex 121 takes a while even with diamonds. Awhile back Luong re-heat treated a 15V blade of mine. I think he got it to 70-71 RC. It wasn't what I'd call thin behind the edge. Maybe .020 to .025"? It wasn't overly difficult to sharpen. I use it in the kitchen and for random odd things. I can't remember the last time i sharpened it (or needed to). I think a lot of people would like it, especially if they like K390/10V/Maxamet for their current uses. I normally advocate for steels in the Vanadis 4E/M4 class when people seek advice or ask for favorite steels but i think a lot of people would enjoy 15V.

There isn't enough real world empirical evidence for people to see and watch to quantify differences between the advantages and disadvantages of 15v compared to other steels.

There is a stigma that the steel is so extreme that it's impossible to use and make knives out of.

My experience with 15v was a lot more friendly then rex121.

If you want a steel like 10V, it should be apparent that the tasks you want you knife to perform are reliant on raw wear resistance. Yet I see people wanting 10V and not 15V. I see people wanting Maxamet but not 15V. I see people wanting advanced steels that no one else is using, yet people don't clamor for the idea of 15V. I'm genuinely curious as to why. Is it because Jim Ankerson nor Cliff Stamp have said anything about the steel so they don't care? Do people not know enough to want something based on their own knowledge without 5000 other people wanting the same thing?

I'm genuinely curious. Why aren't people shouting for a steel like 15V from the rooftops? It's held the Russian cutting competitions top spot for years, yet no one in the west really says anything about it. Why? It really makes my peanuts ponder. Are people really that sheepish? Just follow the leader and nothing else matters? Please help me understand.

[Bodog]

Could 15V be sharpened on the sharpmakers brown and white stones (or be content with the lower grit finish from the sharpmaker diamond and cbn stones)? Or would people need to invest in some new sharpening equipment to really get the most out of that steel?

It's just like any steel. If the sharpening stone abrasive is harder than the steel matrix, you should be able to get a sharp edge. I believe the ceramics Spyderco uses are harder than most steel matrices. The problems might become an issue with steels like rex 121 where the carbide volume is so great that it overwhelms something less than diamonds or cbn, but i haven't seen it.

I can get good edges on both rex 121 at 68 rc and 15V at 65 and 70(+/-) RC with cheap Chinese sharpening stones from amazon. I can't seem to get acceptable edges with a sharpmaker with any steels i have tried so i can't say whether the sharpmaker stones are good with these steels or not. I'm pretty sure if cheap Chinese stones can get the job done then ceramics can in more capable hands than mine. I usually use diamonds from either EZ Lap or Venev to sharpen, though.

[Pelagic]

I'd go for 15v in a heartbeat. Making such a high vanadium steel mainstream would yield lots of interesting cut tests and make the properties of vanadium carbides more apparent. Spyderco usually doesn't push the Rockwell hardness of any particular steel to the max. They seem to aim for a HRC that seems appropriate for general use in a folder. For this reason (along with obvious low chromium content) I don't think their 15v would be too brittle. I think there would MORE THAN ENOUGH people interested to have several models sell out, and I also think people would really appreciate the long lifetime of slicing ability that 15v would bring to the table.

Spyderco is already the king of steel offerings. They already have the capabilities of working with Maxamet, and they'll only get better at it with time. If they add 15v, REX 121, and HAP72... I really think it will give their reputation a large boost in prestige (not that they need one). Calling these steels the upper echelon of blade materials is an understatement, and Spyderco would be so far ahead of the competition there wouldn't even be a comparison.

[The Mastiff]

I had thought I wasn't going to like Maxamet due to the amount of carbide in it. I didn't/don't really care for S125V and thought maybe I had reached a limit with about 10V or thereabouts . I still bought one because I'm a bonified steel junky but I was very surprised by how much I like it. It's a great and true "super steel". I would have tried 15V out anyways but now I'm looking forward to it without preconceived ideas about it's performance. This from a guy that is most comfortable with O1 and W2 up to Cruwear performance wise. I should know better by now to think I know what something is really like because of the numbers on a comp sheet.

Joe

[The Meat man]

The steel geek in me would love to see Spyderco do a run with 15V, HAP 72, or REX 121.
I'm really intrigued by these super alloy steels in the high 60's and even low 70's(!) HRC.

Variety is the spice of life.

[Pelagic]

I had thought I wasn't going to like Maxamet due to the amount of carbide in it. I didn't/don't really care for S125V and thought maybe I had reached a limit with about 10V or thereabouts.

To be honest, I don't have much interest in s125v compared to the other super steels mentioned here. As long as im in a setting where corrosion resistance isn't absolutely needed, I generally like how lower chromium steels behave.

[ZrowsN1s]

Could 15V be sharpened on the sharpmakers brown and white stones (or be content with the lower grit finish from the sharpmaker diamond and cbn stones)? Or would people need to invest in some new sharpening equipment to really get the most out of that steel?

It's just like any steel. If the sharpening stone abrasive is harder than the steel matrix, you should be able to get a sharp edge. I believe the ceramics Spyderco uses are harder than most steel matrices. The problems might become an issue with steels like rex 121 where the carbide volume is so great that it overwhelms something less than diamonds or cbn, but i haven't seen it.

I can get good edges on both rex 121 at 68 rc and 15V at 65 and 70(+/-) RC with cheap Chinese sharpening stones from amazon. I can't seem to get acceptable edges with a sharpmaker with any steels i have tried so i can't say whether the sharpmaker stones are good with these steels or not. I'm pretty sure if cheap Chinese stones can get the job done then ceramics can in more capable hands than mine. I usually use diamonds from either EZ Lap or Venev to sharpen, though.

Ok thanks.

[Bodog]

[quote=Bodog post_id=1288553 time=1544230017
Ok thanks.

Welcome