52100 vs other tool steels

[FK]

JD,
Search Patina on some of the Kitchen Knife Forums,,, they all recommend letting it form or forcing a color on the Hitachi Blue and White paper steels.

It does help prevent rust and corrosion as well as eliminate transferring odors to food from the steel oxidation.


FK

[JD Spydo]

I began using 52100 with the Marble's fixed blades from 1997-2000 era, have a treasured small collection.
Outstanding fixed blade steel, especially with full convex grind. I do not use a secondary bevel on these blades.

With the Spyderco introduction of 52100, it is to me even more readily carried as a folder.
I have Para 3, PM2 and Military,,,, enjoy them all.

Recently purchased a used Military with green G10 scales from the CTS 204-P limited run.
Butter smooth and great lock-up, really like the dark green scales.
Blade was a little stained and I will be experimenting with patina and using often.

FK

Well thanks FK because for a long time I wondered what all the hoopla about "Marbles" fixed blade hunting knives was all about. I know two guys locally here where I live who in a friendly way are joking with me saying that when I ever get a "Marble's" fixed blade knife and only then will I own a real knife. These guys are as passionate about those Marbles as most of us are with Spyderco.

And your advice on the Patina of high carbon steels I will most definitely do some reading up on it. Most of my "users" at this time are stainless and I just sharpen and polish them with FLITZ when I'm done sharpening.

Again of all the high carbon blade steels I've read about over the years I've heard mostly about 1095 and 52100 being the better ones in that category.

[FK]

The Marbles in 52100 steel were made for four years only, some claim into late 2001,, after this time frame they were subcontracted to Camillus with their own steel.
Early Marbles were 1095 and have a great reputation.

The used Military with green G10 has a 52100 blade installed by original owner, very unique combination.

FK

[Zatx]

An earned patina is a beautiful thing.

...
Now I heard from one friend that a Patina can be a type of corrosion preventative>> if that is actually the case I might look into it.

I've always heard the same thing about forced patinas, but haven't seen any conclusive tests to prove this contention. By my way of logic, intentionally corroding the blade establishes a foothold for future corrosion. I would think keeping the metal free of corrosion in the first place would be ideal. Furthermore, I think what might be going on is that the patina hides the small spots of corrosion that would otherwise be more visible on a bright shiny blade and people are making a jump in conclusion based on this false correlation.

But, this is just a guess.

[FK]

For many years firearms were chemically coated with bluing and browning which is a form of forced patina which did protect the carbon steel from surface rust. The process causes a layer of black oxide of iron (Fe3O4) to form

Search firearms "bluing" for more detailed info.

FK

[knivesandbooks]

I think that some confusion may be from 'rust' and 'patina' both being general terms, concepts almost. Patina is not slowly eating away at your steel. Patina doesn't pit.

[Chumango]

A forced patina on my M4 has noticeably reduced corrosion.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Not a favorite by a long shot. Easy to sharpen easy to dull easy to rust. Prefer M4.

[Tucson Tom]

An earned patina is a beautiful thing.

...
Now I heard from one friend that a Patina can be a type of corrosion preventative>> if that is actually the case I might look into it.

I've always heard the same thing about forced patinas, but haven't seen any conclusive tests to prove this contention. By my way of logic, intentionally corroding the blade establishes a foothold for future corrosion. I would think keeping the metal free of corrosion in the first place would be ideal. Furthermore, I think what might be going on is that the patina hides the small spots of corrosion that would otherwise be more visible on a bright shiny blade and people are making a jump in conclusion based on this false correlation.

But, this is just a guess.

This is all anecdotal, but here goes. I buy into the idea that a patina "stabilizes" a knife and really slows further corrosion. I have this inexpensive carbon steel kitchen knife that looks like a cleaver. Bought it in an oriental food store. I have used it every day for the past 20 years (and still do!). When I first got it, it would be wet in the sink and that would produce patches of fluffy brown rust. Now it never does and has a great grey patina.

So if you have 20 years and use your knife daily in the kitchen, you can have what I have! When rust would form in the early days, I would just scrub it off with a scotch-brite or whatever scratchy backed sponge we had in the kitchen. No special care or babying whatsoever.

P.S. I like the invisible coat of vaseline thing for my nice knives.

[Pelagic]

Anyone ever put Ospho on a blade? I wonder if it would transform the patina into a protective layer of iron phosphate. Although I don't see the layer as being durable, it could potentially prevent pitting to an extent.

[500Nitro]

An earned patina is a beautiful thing.

...
Now I heard from one friend that a Patina can be a type of corrosion preventative>> if that is actually the case I might look into it.

I've always heard the same thing about forced patinas, but haven't seen any conclusive tests to prove this contention. By my way of logic, intentionally corroding the blade establishes a foothold for future corrosion. I would think keeping the metal free of corrosion in the first place would be ideal. Furthermore, I think what might be going on is that the patina hides the small spots of corrosion that would otherwise be more visible on a bright shiny blade and people are making a jump in conclusion based on this false correlation.

But, this is just a guess.

This is all anecdotal, but here goes. I buy into the idea that a patina "stabilizes" a knife and really slows further corrosion. I have this inexpensive carbon steel kitchen knife that looks like a cleaver. Bought it in an oriental food store. I have used it every day for the past 20 years (and still do!). When I first got it, it would be wet in the sink and that would produce patches of fluffy brown rust. Now it never does and has a great grey patina.

So if you have 20 years and use your knife daily in the kitchen, you can have what I have! When rust would form in the early days, I would just scrub it off with a scotch-brite or whatever scratchy backed sponge we had in the kitchen. No special care or babying whatsoever.

P.S. I like the invisible coat of vaseline thing for my nice knives.

I think you are spot on.

Once my cheap, high carbon knives (green river) have a patina on them from blood etc, then they seem to get a protective layer
over them and as long as they don't sit wet, rust doesn't seem to form.

So apart from a good scrub to get any meat off, I just dry them and then let the wood handles dry and that's it.