Spyderco Puukko 2018

[Deadboxhero]

I wish the Puukko would be revisited,
It's unique amongst production knives since the geometry was killer thin

It didn't sale well from my point of view because of the steel selection not the design.

I feel the biggest mistake was using S30v with that beautiful thin geometry.

Not a good choice for that application.

It was definitely the inspiration for the Malanika Puukkos in 4v, M4, Cruwear and bd1n.

I was so disappointed that the such a beautiful design and knife wasn't available in the best steel for the job I did something about it and got involved with sending HT blanks to Malanika to make Puukkos.

Experience has shown these steels to be very successful
In this application.

BD1N at 63hrc would be nice. If softer it won't work.
That geometry needs hardness

Yet S30v even at 63hrc won't work, needs finer structures and less carbide volume.

CPM154 and RWL34 at 60hrc also won't work. Too soft, needs more juice.
Lc200n same, it's capped at 59-60rc


Toughness doesn't equal stability so lower hardness for that type of geometry is no good.

Needs hardness for strength since the geometry isn't thick enough to support the grind and needs a steel with fine structures that are stable at high hardness without chipping and rolling while cutting hard wood.

Also a more traditional sheath would be nice.

Hope there is something by 2022.

Cheers.

[dogrunner]

So you want BD1N?
Anything else? How about M4 ? 4V ?
I am only asking because you have played with more steels than most of us and I bet at higher hardness.
I like the design too, but what would be the ideal steel? Seems like BD1N is more of a mystery to most of us at this point.

[bwunger]

How about Maxamet, if you want hard. That'd be a pretty unique knife.kinda like taking the proficient up another level.

[Deadboxhero]

Not edge stable enough for a production knife with that geometry for a wider audience.

That's for custom guys only.

How about Maxamet, if you want hard. That'd be a pretty unique knife.kinda like taking the proficient up another level.

[Deadboxhero]

BD1N is the best choice available as of 2018. Working hardness of 63 and very stable, aebl would be nice but is lower strength.
There are other steels like Nitrobe77 that have great promise but just like Vanax are cost prohibitive and probably only for custom knife makers.

CPM M4 seems to be prone to RA formation and wasn't as stable at lower angles compared to other steels, also the extra carbides were unnecessary for the application.

Don't get me wrong, M4 is great but people haven't really gotten a chance to play with all the other great steel too to really paint a picture of what's going on.

A Puukko is a wood cutting blade FIRST, and other utility second.

Carbides aren't the devil, every steel has them, but for this application the steel needs only enough carbon and other alloy to "pop" up in hardness to the low 60s without forming brittle structures due to excess

So think thin geometry, polish, and push cutting. Not toothy edges or draw cuts that seem to prefer carbide volume.

4v is great for the application in my experience but I doubt production will push it to 64-67hrc where it really kicks butt.

Needs a more experienced user too.

4v is probably just for custom makers unless a company wants to step up and eat the machining costs, warranty claims and whining about not being able to sharpen with a river rock. Extreme performance is just that, an extreme. Remember, production knives are for a wider audience.

A car salesman would not sell Corvette to some one needing a sedan to commute to work and grab groceries.

A wider audience will prefer stainless also.

Bd1n has

Low cost
Ease of machining
Simple Heat treatment
Not prone to warping.
Easy to sharpen.
Easy to use.

Bd1n is made by Carpenter so it's Difficult to get.
Carpenter is focused on the bigger world of steel, not the 0.01% used for knives.

My biggest worry is that it isn't going to be used at 63rc as an attempt to mitigate knives being poorly used and broken. Water it down as a margin of safety.

In my opinion and experience, Bd1n is only Special at higher hardness for this application.

So you want BD1N?
Anything else? How about M4 ? 4V ?
I am only asking because you have played with more steels than most of us and I bet at higher hardness.
I like the design too, but what would be the ideal steel? Seems like BD1N is more of a mystery to most of us at this point.

[Deadboxhero]

One steel that would be fantastic is CPM Rex 45. Very stable.

Who wouldn't want a Puukko with Hap 40 analog? :D

Especially since only Spyderco has access to the steel and isn't afraid to push the hardness.

[Halfneck]

While S30V may of been one of the reasons it didn't sell well, I believe it was more the price that hurt sales. At the time of the wood handled versions release, a custom version by Pekka Tuominen was a little over $100 more.

[bearfacedkiller]

Another Puukko would be great! Unfortunately it has been discontinued for a long time now and is still readily available. That makes me wonder if a sprint is likely.

I like mine and even though it has only seen a little use the steel has held up fine carving some dry hardwoods. I would however welcome a sprint in a different steel. The reason mine has seen only a little use is that the handle was quite uncomfortable for me. It has more of a tear drop shape than an egg shape. Without a handle change you can probably count me out.

[husq2100]

Nice info @Deadboxhere

Thanks

[Rutger]

Benchmade hit a better price point with their Puukko inspired knife than Spyderco did. If the price is too high people rather get one from a custom maker. BM puukko sold out in many stores, so it shows there is demand for such a knife if the price is right.
And what were they smoking to pick S30V for it? Big Brown Bear is right about the steel. It needs good hardness and it doesn't have to be the most expensive/rare steel.

[tvenuto]

Let's see how Spyderco's AEB-L experiment goes (coming out in an Urban). If the results are favorable I'd think this one would be a great platform for a steel with high edge stability. Also, being a fixed blade there are non-stainless options that could work well.

[TomAiello]

What about 52100? It looks like that is Malanika's preferred steel for the Puukko.

[talesk]

I do not believe s30v is an issue.

I have an EnZo PK70 folder with Scandi grind - Made in Taichung Taiwan - in the same factory as the Spyderco knives. So, this is a valid comparison.

Below is a picture of a 2' long board (6 inches wide, 1 inch thick) that was whittled into nothing. The box is full of paper and coardboard cut tests and the edge didn't dull/chip/roll through the process.

I do not feel it is a steel performance issue...

[Deadboxhero]

I do not believe s30v is an issue.

I have an EnZo PK70 folder with Scandi grind - Made in Taichung Taiwan - in the same factory as the Spyderco knives. So, this is a valid comparison.

Below is a picture of a 2' long board (6 inches wide, 1 inch thick) that was whittled into nothing. The box is full of paper and coardboard cut tests and the edge didn't dull/chip/roll through the process.

I do not feel it is a steel performance issue...

What wood?

[talesk]

I do not believe s30v is an issue.

I have an EnZo PK70 folder with Scandi grind - Made in Taichung Taiwan - in the same factory as the Spyderco knives. So, this is a valid comparison.

Below is a picture of a 2' long board (6 inches wide, 1 inch thick) that was whittled into nothing. The box is full of paper and coardboard cut tests and the edge didn't dull/chip/roll through the process.

I do not feel it is a steel performance issue...

What wood?

That was Red Cedar. working on a construction grade spruce 2x2 with a tonne of knots now to see how it holds up.

[Deadboxhero]

I do not believe s30v is an issue.

I have an EnZo PK70 folder with Scandi grind - Made in Taichung Taiwan - in the same factory as the Spyderco knives. So, this is a valid comparison.

Below is a picture of a 2' long board (6 inches wide, 1 inch thick) that was whittled into nothing. The box is full of paper and coardboard cut tests and the edge didn't dull/chip/roll through the process.

I do not feel it is a steel performance issue...

What wood?

That was Red Cedar. working on a construction grade spruce 2x2 with a tonne of knots now to see how it holds up.

Right on, I like bd1n better, for the reasons I said above. Especially when carving harder wood.

Thanks for sharing

[Cycletroll]

I would like to see a pukko in 52100.

[Mom3ntuM]

I'm no steel expert but as a happy owner of both the pukko and the pk70, i can say that neither of the knives seems to have problems with any kind of wood growing in Norway. :)
But they are not my most carried blades so maybe there are some longterm drawback to This steel that i have yet to experience?
I did not know that the Enzo was produced at the same factory, that makes me like the pk even more.
Bladefinish is identical but the grinds are quite different.

[SpyderScout]

I wish the Puukko would be revisited,
It's unique amongst production knives since the geometry was killer thin

It didn't sale well from my point of view because of the steel selection not the design.

I feel the biggest mistake was using S30v with that beautiful thin geometry.

Not a good choice for that application.

It was definitely the inspiration for the Malanika Puukkos in 4v, M4, Cruwear and bd1n.

I was so disappointed that the such a beautiful design and knife wasn't available in the best steel for the job I did something about it and got involved with sending HT blanks to Malanika to make Puukkos.

Would be nice to see the/a Spyderco Puukko again. Nilakka as well for that matter. One heck of a nice knife as well and a great companion knife for the Puukko.

As others have posted; how about 52100?

Where do you stand on the grind - do you advocate a small/micro secondary bevel?
How about Malanikka - does he make Puukkos with or without a small secondary bevel?
Malanikka's knives are awesome BTW.

Im debating for or against, as Im contemplating having a Puukko made to tide me over until the next Spyderco ;-)

[termite]

BD1N is the best choice available as of 2018. Working hardness of 63 and very stable, aebl would be nice but is lower strength.
There are other steels like Nitrobe77 that have great promise but just like Vanax are cost prohibitive and probably only for custom knife makers.

CPM M4 seems to be prone to RA formation and wasn't as stable at lower angles compared to other steels, also the extra carbides were unnecessary for the application.

Don't get me wrong, M4 is great but people haven't really gotten a chance to play with all the other great steel too to really paint a picture of what's going on.

A Puukko is a wood cutting blade FIRST, and other utility second.

Carbides aren't the devil, every steel has them, but for this application the steel needs only enough carbon and other alloy to "pop" up in hardness to the low 60s without forming brittle structures due to excess

So think thin geometry, polish, and push cutting. Not toothy edges or draw cuts that seem to prefer carbide volume.

4v is great for the application in my experience but I doubt production will push it to 64-67hrc where it really kicks butt.

Needs a more experienced user too.

4v is probably just for custom makers unless a company wants to step up and eat the machining costs, warranty claims and whining about not being able to sharpen with a river rock. Extreme performance is just that, an extreme. Remember, production knives are for a wider audience.

A car salesman would not sell Corvette to some one needing a sedan to commute to work and grab groceries.

A wider audience will prefer stainless also.

Bd1n has

Low cost
Ease of machining
Simple Heat treatment
Not prone to warping.
Easy to sharpen.
Easy to use.

Bd1n is made by Carpenter so it's Difficult to get.
Carpenter is focused on the bigger world of steel, not the 0.01% used for knives.

My biggest worry is that it isn't going to be used at 63rc as an attempt to mitigate knives being poorly used and broken. Water it down as a margin of safety.

In my opinion and experience, Bd1n is only Special at higher hardness for this application.

So you want BD1N?
Anything else? How about M4 ? 4V ?
I am only asking because you have played with more steels than most of us and I bet at higher hardness.
I like the design too, but what would be the ideal steel? Seems like BD1N is more of a mystery to most of us at this point.

Some good points, Mr. Deadboxhero except for one that I must vehemently disagree with: The car salesman will sell 'em the Corvette regardless, if it means he'll get more money. I stand by my claim based on personal experience. Hoping better for y'alls' experiences. Cheers.