Would you really want LC200N in a non-Salt knife?

[awa54]

Are the tusk and spyder chef considered salts? They use this steel and seem to not have a problem.
I like this steel and would like it for edc. I could cut things in my lunch for instance, wash the blade, and not worry about water still in the pivot. Don’t think that needs to be a full salt knife.
I would really like to see the catra results compared to s30v and xhp. I don’t think it’s quite at their level. I want numbers.

This is lifted from a recent Blade Forums thread, posted by some "Sal Glesser" guy, seems like he's had a bit of experience with LC200N...

Cronidur 30 was the original German invention circa 1999. It was the original Nitrogen steel. They said (back then) that they couldn't sell it to us for 2 reasons; 1) Spyderco was an international company and they were afraid that we might send it to a non patent friendly country that would cheat on their patent. 2) They were selling all they could make to Nasa at the time.

While we was disappointed, we kept searching for a "salt water friendly" steel. Then a few years later, we were introduced to H1, which worked well. When Crucible broke up, Harry, their President set up another steel company. He knew I wanted Cronidur 30 so he chased it down for me. (He's one of the few with a CPM S125 Military). But he said we couldn't call it Cronidur because it was a trademarked name. Alpha distributes the steel to custom makers. They didn't like the name LC200N (the factories name for "Low Corrosion"), so they call it Z-FiNit.

It's fairly new to the knife industry so there isn't much history at this time. It has good edge retention in plain edge. Better than H1, but not as good as VG-1-0, by our lab testing. We're still watching everyone's testing as well. The more, the better. I don't think it's as tough as H1.

The Caribbean is now shipping and it is a higher volume model so we can get more feedback.

sal

I guess I need to actually buy that Caribbean PE sheepsfoot that I talked myself out of, if I want to find out what LC200N is all about...

[Rutger]

Interesting to see the split developing here... Seems like there is a substantial camp who would value corrosion resistance over wear resistance in *all* Spydercos, not just a limited line of Salt models.

Personally I wouldn't want to go back to an average edge retention that's comparable to 8Cr13MoV/AUS8 now that I have adapted to the better edge holding that mid to high carbide stainless offers. Sure the Spyderco line would still be great knives, but I don't value corrosion resistance enough to take a step backward in other ways to get *even more* of it.

Then again, LC200N may just be "all that"... I guess it's time to try an LC200N Spydie myself!

it’s my understanding that lc200n has edge retention in the range of s30v and xhp. is that not correct?

You are correct. Pete from the Cedric & Ada youtube channel who does loads of knife edge retention tests has tested LC200N in several knives and his results are in that ballpark. And the steel is easier to sharpen. Dunno why some down talk the steel.

[ladybug93]

Are the tusk and spyder chef considered salts? They use this steel and seem to not have a problem.
I like this steel and would like it for edc. I could cut things in my lunch for instance, wash the blade, and not worry about water still in the pivot. Don’t think that needs to be a full salt knife.
I would really like to see the catra results compared to s30v and xhp. I don’t think it’s quite at their level. I want numbers.

This is lifted from a recent Blade Forums thread, posted by some "Sal Glesser" guy, seems like he's had a bit of experience with LC200N...

Cronidur 30 was the original German invention circa 1999. It was the original Nitrogen steel. They said (back then) that they couldn't sell it to us for 2 reasons; 1) Spyderco was an international company and they were afraid that we might send it to a non patent friendly country that would cheat on their patent. 2) They were selling all they could make to Nasa at the time.

While we was disappointed, we kept searching for a "salt water friendly" steel. Then a few years later, we were introduced to H1, which worked well. When Crucible broke up, Harry, their President set up another steel company. He knew I wanted Cronidur 30 so he chased it down for me. (He's one of the few with a CPM S125 Military). But he said we couldn't call it Cronidur because it was a trademarked name. Alpha distributes the steel to custom makers. They didn't like the name LC200N (the factories name for "Low Corrosion"), so they call it Z-FiNit.

It's fairly new to the knife industry so there isn't much history at this time. It has good edge retention in plain edge. Better than H1, but not as good as VG-1-0, by our lab testing. We're still watching everyone's testing as well. The more, the better. I don't think it's as tough as H1.

The Caribbean is now shipping and it is a higher volume model so we can get more feedback.

sal

I guess I need to actually buy that Caribbean PE sheepsfoot that I talked myself out of, if I want to find out what LC200N is all about...

i remember reading this too, but everyone else that is using it seems to report different. i’m curious about hearing more real world results and hopefully getting a better idea of what to expect. the native salt in my hand at some point would probably help with this analysis as well.

[SF Native]

Are the tusk and spyder chef considered salts? They use this steel and seem to not have a problem.
I like this steel and would like it for edc. I could cut things in my lunch for instance, wash the blade, and not worry about water still in the pivot. Don’t think that needs to be a full salt knife.
I would really like to see the catra results compared to s30v and xhp. I don’t think it’s quite at their level. I want numbers.

This is lifted from a recent Blade Forums thread, posted by some "Sal Glesser" guy, seems like he's had a bit of experience with LC200N...

Cronidur 30 was the original German invention circa 1999. It was the original Nitrogen steel. They said (back then) that they couldn't sell it to us for 2 reasons; 1) Spyderco was an international company and they were afraid that we might send it to a non patent friendly country that would cheat on their patent. 2) They were selling all they could make to Nasa at the time.

While we was disappointed, we kept searching for a "salt water friendly" steel. Then a few years later, we were introduced to H1, which worked well. When Crucible broke up, Harry, their President set up another steel company. He knew I wanted Cronidur 30 so he chased it down for me. (He's one of the few with a CPM S125 Military). But he said we couldn't call it Cronidur because it was a trademarked name. Alpha distributes the steel to custom makers. They didn't like the name LC200N (the factories name for "Low Corrosion"), so they call it Z-FiNit.

It's fairly new to the knife industry so there isn't much history at this time. It has good edge retention in plain edge. Better than H1, but not as good as VG-1-0, by our lab testing. We're still watching everyone's testing as well. The more, the better. I don't think it's as tough as H1.

The Caribbean is now shipping and it is a higher volume model so we can get more feedback.

sal

I guess I need to actually buy that Caribbean PE sheepsfoot that I talked myself out of, if I want to find out what LC200N is all about...

Thanks. That’s been my experience too. I really
Like this steel and think it’s great for light duty edc. The edge retention is in the range of the other steels we use and it really is easy to sharpen. Get me an urban or ukpk!
But I don’t think it’s going to replace s30v or my s110v work horses any time soon.

[Bodog]

I'd prefer to see the LC200N in fully "salt" models.

Why limit LC200N to salt models only? Exclusivity? I don't understand that mentality.

probably because it will still rust against other metals, so for the full corrosion resistance benefits, the rest of the knife would have to play nice as well.

That's not a genuine concern for most any person. Same as the need for high hot hardness. The other considerations may make the steel something good, but the simple aspect of high hot hardness doesn't really matter to most knife people. Same with the idea that LC200N somehow performs worse when used with highly corrosion resistant steel hardware.

Sure, there may be some crazy situation that brings the issue to the fore, but not really a practical problem. Refer to surfergringos comments.

I don't dunk my knives into corrosive materials. My blades, on the other hand, see it quite often. And the steel used for the hardware is absolutely more corrosion resistant than S30V, i rarely, extremely rarely, hear complaints about the hardware corroding.

Whichever. Spyderco will do what spyderco does. There will always be people criticizing their efforts. I guess sometimes I'm one and even louder than a lot. I don't believe that spyderco always make the correct decisions. I believe they as a company need to weigh the market. The market is often stupid. But they still need to sell to the market. So sometimes they sell something that is stupid or doesn't really make total sense. I don't believe spyderco is always happy about it or find it to be the best. I believe they do the best the market allows, and that's not an incorrect stance. This is a capitalist system and there are always others looking to take more market share by pandering to those willing to pay. Spyderco has a pretty danged good track recore of balancing what's right and what the market wants. Other companies are far worse offenders.

[SF Native]

I'd prefer to see the LC200N in fully "salt" models.

Why limit LC200N to salt models only? Exclusivity? I don't understand that mentality.

probably because it will still rust against other metals, so for the full corrosion resistance benefits, the rest of the knife would have to play nice as well.

That's not a genuine concern for most any person. Same as the need for high hot hardness. The other considerations may make the steel something good, but the simple aspect of high hot hardness doesn't really matter to most knife people. Same with the idea that LC200N somehow performs worse when used with highly corrosion resistant steel hardware.

Sure, there may be some crazy situation that brings the issue to the fore, but not really a practical problem. Refer to surfergringos comments.

I don't dunk my knives into corrosive materials. My blades, on the other hand, see it quite often. And the steel used for the hardware is absolutely more corrosion resistant than S30V, i rarely, extremely rarely, hear complaints about the hardware corroding.

Whichever. Spyderco will do what spyderco does. There will always be people criticizing their efforts. I guess sometimes I'm one and even louder than a lot. I don't believe that spyderco always make the correct decisions. I believe they as a company need to weigh the market. The market is often stupid. But they still need to sell to the market. So sometimes they sell something that is stupid or doesn't really make total sense. I don't believe spyderco is always happy about it or find it to be the best. I believe they do the best the market allows, and that's not an incorrect stance. This is a capitalist system and there are always others looking to take more market share by pandering to those willing to pay. Spyderco has a pretty danged good track recore of balancing what's right and what the market wants. Other companies are far worse offenders.

Well said bodog. Couldn’t agree more.
It’s a fickle market and spyderco does better than most to juggle varying needs.

[ladybug93]

I'd prefer to see the LC200N in fully "salt" models.

Why limit LC200N to salt models only? Exclusivity? I don't understand that mentality.

probably because it will still rust against other metals, so for the full corrosion resistance benefits, the rest of the knife would have to play nice as well.

That's not a genuine concern for most any person. Same as the need for high hot hardness. The other considerations may make the steel something good, but the simple aspect of high hot hardness doesn't really matter to most knife people. Same with the idea that LC200N somehow performs worse when used with highly corrosion resistant steel hardware.

Sure, there may be some crazy situation that brings the issue to the fore, but not really a practical problem. Refer to surfergringos comments.

I don't dunk my knives into corrosive materials. My blades, on the other hand, see it quite often. And the steel used for the hardware is absolutely more corrosion resistant than S30V, i rarely, extremely rarely, hear complaints about the hardware corroding.

Whichever. Spyderco will do what spyderco does. There will always be people criticizing their efforts. I guess sometimes I'm one and even louder than a lot. I don't believe that spyderco always make the correct decisions. I believe they as a company need to weigh the market. The market is often stupid. But they still need to sell to the market. So sometimes they sell something that is stupid or doesn't really make total sense. I don't believe spyderco is always happy about it or find it to be the best. I believe they do the best the market allows, and that's not an incorrect stance. This is a capitalist system and there are always others looking to take more market share by pandering to those willing to pay. Spyderco has a pretty danged good track recore of balancing what's right and what the market wants. Other companies are far worse offenders.

there's a reason spyderco redesigned the spydiechef with a new detent. you don't have to swim in the ocean with the spydiechef for the detent ball to form corrosion against the lc200n. i've seen the rusted detent ball. of course, this is second hand knowledge, so take that for what it's worth, but it's a concern and not just for people that are in corrosive environments.

personally, i'm not worried about what spyderco does. they have more info than i do on their steels and i can't afford half the knives i want anyway. i trust they're going to do a combination of what's best for their bottom line and their customers. i was just taking a stab at answering the question.

[BDNX]

I'd prefer to see the LC200N in fully "salt" models.

Speaking of which, where is the Native LW Salt?

I'd also love to have a Manix 2 LW Salt.

I would absolutely love to see a Manix2 Ltwt in LC200N....yellow FRCP handles....nothing could hold me back from purchasing one of these if offered.

[Sumdumguy]

I'll buy LC200N in any knife they put it in, it has been a champ in my book. I find the edge retention is perfectly acceptable, just touch it up ever 2 weeks or so as needed. Toughness, I have yet to damage it in any way(I'm quite abusive to my personal users)
When it is time to sharpen, it takes just a few minutes to turn it into a scalpel.

The Caribbean PE Leaf is a monster in a tacky leisure suit I will be buying an SE sheepsfoot eventually.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

I think people should own LC200N and get familiar with it before posting.

I have a Spydiechef that has managed to kick everything else out of the pocket big time. I use this knife for everything from opening packages, disposing of cardboard, Slicing vegetables, cheese, cutting pie you name it and I never worry about anything at all anything! So what if breaking down a whole chicken gets it all gummy and nasty a little soap a full rinse in the sink with a brush and good to go. Leave it out to air dry and forget about it.

LC200N in my experience is much better than S30V and when it gets a little dull 10 licks on either side with the brown stones on the sharpmaker set at 15 degrees and it is good to go again.

If Spyderco makes a military in LC200N I will buy at-least two of them.

Whenever using LC200N it is a no brainier the rest of the hardware needs to match it in rust imperiousness, so what if it costs a few dollars more? What little bit extra it costs the one buying the knife, they will receive in value for many years to come.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

i would be happy about “salt” knives that are rustproof with lc200n and non-corrosive metals and/or plastic handles as long as they aren’t all marketed as salt models with bright yellow handles. the spydiechef is a great example of this, especially now that it has a ceramic detente ball so it won’t rust. it’s not a salt knife, but it is still rustproof. i’d love to see more models like that. the native salt could be a good example too. it doesn’t have to be marketed as a salt knife even though it is rustproof.
based on what i’ve read of lc200n, i’d love to see it in more knives and it would make a great edc steel as long as it doesn’t live up against another metal that can cause rust.

The Spydiechef is considered a part of the "SALT Series" and advertised that way. 2018 Catalog for reference.


On changing the base steel from S30V to something else - I like S30V and don't feel that it needs to be switched out but I'm not completely against the idea.
I do agree that LC200N would be the wrong steel choice for reasons mentioned in this thread. Spyderco is the only company using it in their production line at the moment. Sounds like it's difficult or expensive to source.

I like that Spyderco has used H1 and LC200n exclusively in their SALT series, so far. It helps to distinguish itself in their product line in my opinion.

Not sure where the idea of LC200N being expensive is coming from? The regular salt series are right in line with allot of S30V offerings. The Spydiechef is more expensive but it also has full Titanium slabs as well.

[wrdwrght]

Are the tusk and spyder chef considered salts?

I don’t recall the Spydiechef being considered a Salt before the 2019 catalog where it is declared such. I wonder if that’s because of the new (CQI) ceramic detent ball which solves the galvanic reaction problem.

[Crux]

I already have a Spyderco fixed blade in LC200N. It's a Mule with carbon fiber scales. Quite nice. :)

[James Y]

I have only one knife in LC200N, my PE leaf-bladed Caribbean. It's become my main one-handed EDC for the past several months. It is now my favorite blade steel.

I don't buy many knives anymore, but I'm curious to see what kind of LC200N models Spyderco comes up with, and how many more existing models they will have versions of in this steel.

Jim

[jalcon]

I just want a LC200N PM2. That is all.