Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

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Baron Mind
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Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Baron Mind » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:01 pm

I was originally going to title this post why I don't like titanium handled knives, but that's not quite right. My first couple "real" knives had g10 and frn scales. As I continued to explore knives online I discovered carbon fiber scales and thought they looked super cool. When I finally got one in real life and handled the knife I was surprised that I was sort of put off by the carbon fiber. I didn't quite know why, but that particular knife had other issues and I ended up returning it. After acquiring a few more g10 knives I started to become interested in titanium handled knives. When i finally got one in real life and handled it, again I was put off. Something just didn't feel right.

After thinking about it for some time I think it comes down to how you view knives. What is their purpose? I think the reason titanium and slick carbon fiber handles is they don't actually enhance the effectiveness or efficiency of a knife as a tool in anyway. They're decorative. If anything they make your tool worse. G10 seems to be the optimal handle material relative to function.

Don't get me wrong, titanium and carbon fiber handles look great, and are still plenty functional for the vast majority of everyday use, but they don't fit the design theory of optimizing performance of a cutting tool, and I've realized for me personally, that is what brings me joy in high end knives, features that enhance performance, even if they're not actually required for my use.

To equate it to cars, all of us can get to the places we need to go with an entry level priced vehicle. Some of us will decide to pay more than that for a vehicle, and some of us will base that decision on the paint job, and some of us will base that decision on horsepower, even though an incredible paint job or a high powered engine won't get us to the local convenience store any faster or easier.

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MichaelScott
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby MichaelScott » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:09 pm

I’m not sure you get a performance loss with CF or Ti scales. At least for the way most of us use our knives. I have not had a Ti handled knife so I can’t speak from experience. G10 is a fine material, but not always a good performance choice depending on how it is configured. My Lil’ Native G10 is much more “grippy” than the G10 on my One-Eyed Jack.
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Baron Mind
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Baron Mind » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:39 pm

Yea like I said I know titanium will be just fine for almost anything we use our knives for. I guess I can't think of anything you gain in performance by switching from texture g10 to smooth titanium, and I just find the concept of maximizing performance incredibly interesting.

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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Baron Mind » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:42 pm

So to be clear, theoretically texture g10 gives you a better grip, less chance of the knife moving in your hand during a demanding cut. Is g10 stronger than titanium? I'm actually not sure but I assume so. It's definitely more resistant to temperature change, and corrosion?

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NoFair
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby NoFair » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:16 am

Just like G10 carbon fiber can be made either slick or grippy. It is stiffer and lighter than G10 which is an advantage in some cases.

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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby ChrisinHove » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:17 am

Frame lock and Spits mechanisms excepted, of course, where they are integral to the scale material.

Why is g10 “better” than frn, though, particularly when you factor in price?

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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Sjucaveman » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:21 am

My sliverax CF is extremely grippy.
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Vivi » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:21 am

CF is lighter than G10 or Micarta.
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby SpyderScout » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:46 am

Baron Mind wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:01 pm
Something just didn't feel right.

I think the reason titanium and slick carbon fiber handles is they don't actually enhance the effectiveness or efficiency of a knife as a tool in anyway.

They're decorative.

If anything they make your tool worse.
Ohh, really ... ?


Thats fascinating.

Image

Image

Baron Mind wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:01 pm

Don't get me wrong, titanium and carbon fiber handles look great, and are still plenty functional for the vast majority of everyday use, but they don't fit the design theory of optimizing performance of a cutting tool...
Do share more of your vast font of titanium knowledge.
You have clearly thought this through.

Caveat; the above meant tongue in cheek. Rright or wrong, you are of course entitled to your opinion.
You just seem to have overlooked quite a few factors in regards to applications (not least knives in the family of the tools pictured above), strength to weight ratio (titanium is a fantastic material in that regard - dare I say optimal), the knives from Spyderco having a lock integrated in the titanium handle etc etc.

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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby BornIn1500 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:04 am

Pocket knives absolutely now have a niche as a kind of man-jewelry. That can't be denied. Lots of people make the claim of "stronger/lighter" for carbon fiber and titanium, but in reality it's only to justify their purchase just as I'm sure a lady has similar justifications for buying the latest $500 luxury purse.

In the end, it looks cool and people want to feel proud of what they own and to have the "wow" factor when they show it off. Optimal performance sometimes takes a back seat.

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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby JonLeBlanc » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:12 am

I think the peel ply CF used by Spyderco is grippier than G10, just in my estimation.

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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby bearfacedkiller » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:43 am

I am not a huge fan of texture. It has its place but I don’t agree that more texture is always better.

I favor g10 though too. I find it to be more durable than CF. It also weighs less than Ti and wears better. Basically, G10 is less likely to chip if dropped than CF and doesn’t scratch easily like Titanium does. Besides that it usually costs less than either one of them. That is not to say that there are not applications that would be best with Ti or CF.

I do think that some people prefer CF and Ti because they cost more and are perceived as more premium materials thus giving the owner a little more pride of ownership. Nothing wrong with that either if that is what you like.

In the end I like to have a variety of materials in my rotation just because variety is the spice of life.
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby BadFish » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:57 am

Anyone ever try to hold on to a titanium handled knife while cutting a deer and cutting the wind pipe? I’ll stick to g10 textured frn they are superior for real mans knife uses. Titanium gets slippery also when getting fish slime all over it. My two cents

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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Evil D » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:03 am

Peel ply CF > all others

It's the best of all worlds. It's light, grippy, looks good (well, fancier than G10), has cool factor and it's easily modded. It's everything I like about G10 but a bit nicer. You can also get some awesome weave variations that you can't get with G10 (lightning strike etc) though you usually don't see those in peel ply style but I'm sure it's possible.


Titanium just needs machined to compete. You can make handle scales out of any material and make them smooth and you'll have the same issues. The one exception I've heard was about some old polished micarta that apparently seemed to get even more grippy when wet. If you polish G10 it won't be any better than smooth titanium. Unfortunately Spyderco don't seem to machine titanium to allow this. I'm sure it would add to cost considerably, but I would love to see textures like Strider uses and some ZT's have used. I'd like to see them in G10 too.
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Woodpuppy » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:10 am

Good thing we have so many options. Spyderco is able to meet the needs and wants of a vast customer base. I too dislike smooth metallic handles. Generally, there is a literal and figurative warmth to wood and synthetics that metallic handles lack, aside from the texture issue. I’ll agree the peel ply CF has great texture. But other knives I’ve tried with smooth CF have left me unimpressed. There are materials with better “feel” in a smooth surface. As to the weight, in a 3-3.5” sized folder the difference in weight between various knives may be readily apparent side by side, but only the outliers will “feel heavy” in the pocket. CF vs g10 won’t matter much.
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby The Deacon » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:22 am

If I was going for maximum grip on a Spyderco, I'd go with US made peel-ply carbon fiber. As David noted, its peel-ply texture is even more aggressive than peel-ply G-10. It also justifies its higher cost by retaining that texture longer and being lighter weight. On the other end of the scale, Spyderco's "volcano" textured FRN offers a darn good grip at a much lower cost than CF or G-10 and has the added advantage of causing less wear and tear on pockets. Still, I prefer a knife with a handle shape that does not require textured scales to feel stable in my hand.

That said, I think handle material and texture preferences are much more subjective than objective and there are no "right" or "wrong" choices here. Sal's "all good, just different" mantra pretty well sums it up.
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Evil D
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Evil D » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:23 am

Baron Mind wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:01 pm
To equate it to cars, all of us can get to the places we need to go with an entry level priced vehicle. Some of us will decide to pay more than that for a vehicle, and some of us will base that decision on the paint job, and some of us will base that decision on horsepower, even though an incredible paint job or a high powered engine won't get us to the local convenience store any faster

Well, it CAN ;)

It could also be argued that a titanium frame lock can be built stronger and take more abuse than a Pacific Salt, but if you "do the speed limit" with both knives you won't ever see that potential so it leaves you with diminishing returns if you never push the boundaries. My 500hp Mustang gets half the gas mileage that my Scion gets, but even doing the speed limit there is more to driving it than just getting from A to B... just sitting at a red light listening to it idle puts a smile on my face, and that's probably how many feel about titanium.

Ultimately life is hard and often sucks. You have to splurge a little and give yourself those little breaks and rewards. I like titanium for it's simplicity, you can make a knife with very few parts and it's extremely low maintenance. I also have an odd personal connection with titanium as I have some in my skull lol. Like you said though, they all fill a specific use. I wouldn't want titanium on every knife I own.
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sparky2016
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby sparky2016 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:32 am

SpyderScout wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:46 am
Do share more of your vast font of titanium knowledge.
You have clearly thought this through.

Caveat; the above meant tongue in cheek. Rright or wrong, you are of course entitled to your opinion.
You just seem to have overlooked quite a few factors in regards to applications (not least knives in the family of the tools pictured above), strength to weight ratio (titanium is a fantastic material in that regard - dare I say optimal), the knives from Spyderco having a lock integrated in the titanium handle etc etc.
You just proved his point, by choosing niche knives that few own and fewer actually use. Because it's hard to argue with the OP on the actual substance of his points regarding the broad set of knives out there.

The integral lock boom right now is also more fad than function for most people.

NTTAWW anyone buying things they like, for their own reasons.

But all anyone has to do is look at what Spyderco produces, and that tells you where various materials and locks fit into the scheme of things.

BTW, I thought Spyderholes and FRN were bizarre when I first saw them. But people seemed to think they were worth a try, so I got some. I had no idea what I was getting into.
Last edited by sparky2016 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Sumdumguy » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:34 am

Because, as a tool, it's better.

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Evil D
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Re: Figured out why I prefer g10 scales

Postby Evil D » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:44 am

Paul makes a good point about ergonomics. All things being equal, ergonomics are what truly matter the most. There's no getting around the fact that a Sebenza is going to slip out of your hand before a Manix 2 XL will, and scale material won't make a bit of difference. You can coat both in fat and blood and Vaseline and you can even stick on some grip tape on the Sebenza but you'll lose your grip before the Manix comes loose.
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