ZDP-189

[Rhodie]

Does this blade steel closely mimic the properties and performance of S-110 steel? I am looking at upgrading an older Endura and the only offering I have seen it in is S-30 and ZDP-189 Thanks for any replies.

[attila]

Do you mean S110V and S30V? I thought the Endura has never been produced with S30V, but I might be mistaken.

With regard to ZDP-189 vs S110V, they are both on the harder to sharpen end of the spectrum due to carbide volume, but I've maintained both steels without diamond or CBN, it just takes longer.

S110V has higher wear resistance and far better corrosion resistance.

That's about all I can really say about them because I don't sharpen at extreme angles or abuse my edges. I enjoy both, but like S110V better due to the corrosion resistance.

With regard to other Endura offerings, the main offerings are currently:

VG10, which is a respectable but definitely lower teir stainless steel than ZDP or S110V. VG10 is nothing special when it comes to sharpening, and can be sharpened very quickly and easily. If you want a knife that cuts but requires more frequent but easier sharpening than ZDP or S110V, VG10 will work great.

HAP40, which resembles ZDP more so than S110V, but it's definitely not a stainless steel. HAP40 doesn't seem hard to sharpen at all to me, despite being a high speed steel.

There are other versions, namely the Pacific Salt, which comes with the Endura 3 handle shape and a completely rust proof steel called H1. Its softer and far easier to maintain than nearly all others I've tried from Spyderco. I keep one around for really wet, sweaty, or salt-watery days.

Reading your question again, it seems I went overboard, but idk how much info you were looking for, so I'll leave it. Sorry, if it's too much, but I hope it helps.

[zhyla]

Do you mean S110V and S30V? I thought the Endura has never been produced with S30V, but I might be mistaken.

They did a run of S30v Delicas... but I don't see any mention of Enduras.

[BIGSTRETCH]

Does this blade steel closely mimic the properties and performance of S-110 steel? I am looking at upgrading an older Endura and the only offering I have seen it in is S-30 and ZDP-189 Thanks for any replies.

Check out Michael Christy's video comparing Hap40 and ZDP-189. They're relatively similar in performance, but with a very different elemental composition. ZDP relies on chromium as its carbide former which is a distinctive trait of the steel. Despite the high chromium content, ZDP is not stainless, something about "free" chromium- I won't pretend to understand any more than that.

S110V is very corrosion resistant and has top shelf edge retention; which probably makes it more difficult to sharpen than ZDP. Neither are particularly tough steels.

Are you upgrading from VG10? Both ZDP-189 and S110V are very good steels and will outperform VG10 easily. I personally believe a knife steel only needs to be tough enough, that prying and cutting metal are easy enough to avoid, and also that sharpening difficulty can be minimized with advanced abrasives- so I'd give the edge to s110v because of the edge retention and corrosion resistance.

Also consider HAP40, it may be a better option than either for toughness and I really like the recently released Cutlery Shoppe Exclusive Endura. It is probably the best value Endura out there at the moment.

[vivi]

zdp is stainless. it's not as corrosion resistant as some steels, but neither is S30V. both are a step up from D2 is this respect, much less 1095.

[Rhodie]

Do you mean S110V and S30V? I thought the Endura has never been produced with S30V, but I might be mistaken.

With regard to ZDP-189 vs S110V, they are both on the harder to sharpen end of the spectrum due to carbide volume, but I've maintained both steels without diamond or CBN, it just takes longer.

S110V has higher wear resistance and far better corrosion resistance.

That's about all I can really say about them because I don't sharpen at extreme angles or abuse my edges. I enjoy both, but like S110V better due to the corrosion resistance.

With regard to other Endura offerings, the main offerings are currently:

VG10, which is a respectable but definitely lower teir stainless steel than ZDP or S110V. VG10 is nothing special when it comes to sharpening, and can be sharpened very quickly and easily. If you want a knife that cuts but requires more frequent but easier sharpening than ZDP or S110V, VG10 will work great.

HAP40, which resembles ZDP more so than S110V, but it's definitely not a stainless steel. HAP40 doesn't seem hard to sharpen at all to me, despite being a high speed steel.

There are other versions, namely the Pacific Salt, which comes with the Endura 3 handle shape and a completely rust proof steel called H1. Its softer and far easier to maintain than nearly all others I've tried from Spyderco. I keep one around for really wet, sweaty, or salt-watery days.

Reading your question again, it seems I went overboard, but idk how much info you were looking for, so I'll leave it. Sorry, if it's too much, but I hope it helps.

Overboard? Not at all, thanks for taking the time to pound out your reply and giving me information to chomp on.

[Rhodie]

Does this blade steel closely mimic the properties and performance of S-110 steel? I am looking at upgrading an older Endura and the only offering I have seen it in is S-30 and ZDP-189 Thanks for any replies.

Check out Michael Christy's video comparing Hap40 and ZDP-189. They're relatively similar in performance, but with a very different elemental composition. ZDP relies on chromium as its carbide former which is a distinctive trait of the steel. Despite the high chromium content, ZDP is not stainless, something about "free" chromium- I won't pretend to understand any more than that.

S110V is very corrosion resistant and has top shelf edge retention; which probably makes it more difficult to sharpen than ZDP. Neither are particularly tough steels.

Are you upgrading from VG10? Both ZDP-189 and S110V are very good steels and will outperform VG10 easily. I personally believe a knife steel only needs to be tough enough, that prying and cutting metal are easy enough to avoid, and also that sharpening difficulty can be minimized with advanced abrasives- so I'd give the edge to s110v because of the edge retention and corrosion resistance.

Also consider HAP40, it may be a better option than either for toughness and I really like the recently released Cutlery Shoppe Exclusive Endura. It is probably the best value Endura out there at the moment.

I am upgrading from a ATS-55.

[BIGSTRETCH]

zdp is stainless. it's not as corrosion resistant as some steels, but neither is S30V. both are a step up from D2 is this respect, much less 1095.

I stand corrected, thx! The "Stainless" designation is misleading isn't it? Not as black and white as it suggests.

I am upgrading from a ATS-55.

I think you will find any of the available Spyderco steels to be an upgrade in Edge retention, the difference will be extreme once you get into the Hap40 realm. Here is my take on the Endura's available steels and s110v, simplified and with lists. Also, s90v is a very similar steel to s110v that may be a little easier to sharpen fwiw

Edge Retention:

1st) cpm-s110v & s90v *tie*
::moderate jump::
2nd) ZDP-189 & Hap40 *tie*
::big jump::
3rd) Vtoku2 (sprint run)
4th) VG-10

Corrosion resistance:

1st) s110v
2nd) s90v
3rd) VG-10
::big jump::
4th) ZDP-189
5th) Hap40
::moderate jump::
6th) Vtoku2

Ease of Sharpening:

1st) Vtoku2
2nd) VG-10
3rd) Hap40
::moderate jump::
4th) ZDP-189
::big Jump:: (consider investing in diamond, CBN, other advanced abrasives, or just send it to Spyderco)
5th) s90v
6th) s110v

Toughness:

1) Vtoku2
2) VG10
3) Hap40
4) a)ZDP-189, b)s90v, c)s110v are somewhat negligible difference for EDC use imo and I'm not about to test this hypothesis!


If you decide to go Endura, I'll just plug the Cutlery Shoppe Hap40 Exclusive again. I couldn't be happier with it. If not Endura, there are many other steels available. If this stuff interests you enough, Michael Christy, Big Brown Bear, Jef Jewel, Cedric and Ada Outdoors have great youtube Channels for those of us just getting into the steel and sharpening thing. Good luck, happy shopping

[Rhodie]

Thanks, wow what a lot of info to digest. How susceptible is Hap40 to corrosion? I live in the Midwest so I think I would be ok? I have a Manix 2 in CPM4 that's doing fine so I think the Hap40 would also be ok in my environment.

[awa54]

Hmm, I'd rank ZDP as the hardest of the bunch to sharpen, with S90V being a close second and S110V much easier than either (talking about coarse working edges on 90 and 110, polished edge on ZDP)... But that's a moot point if you want an Endura 4, since it's only available with VG10 or ZDP 189 in regular production.

I have an ATS 55 Dragonfly and would rate it as half way between AUS8 and VG10, easier to sharpen than VG10 by a bit, with slightly better edge retention than AUS8 but less corrosion resiststance than either.

HAP 40 is a fantastic steel, with decent wear resistance and great ease of sharpening, but it's even less stain resistant than ZDP and is only available in Sprints or Exclusives.

If you want a light weight workhorse of a knife in a CPM steel (S110V would be my top pick) then a Manix 2 LW might fill the bill nicely. Not as slim in the pocket as an Endura, but just as capable in most situations and subjectively very light and slim in pocket compared to the G10 scaled version. Of course this could also be the perfect excuse to get an S110V Millie

[BIGSTRETCH]

I have a Manix 2 in CPM4 that's doing fine so I think the Hap40 would also be ok in my environment.

Yes! M4 is one of my favorite steels and I think you would find they're very similar. The Hap40 Endura is a laminate as well, that just makes it better imo. More stainless surface area, looks cool with an edge patina and arguably tougher because of the soft stainless cladding.